The USF at-gun has horrible penetration. It's only redeeming factor is that the take aim ability is pretty amazing, enhancing range, vision, and ROF(?).
My suggestion is that at Vet 2 or Vet 3 the AP round ability decrease cost from 60 to 30 munitions. Munitions in the late game is pretty hard for USF to come by, between nades, upgrading rifles, and using abilities. Every activation of AP rounds is a bar lost. And even getting a USF at gun to Vet 2 or 3 is pretty challenging.
I think this change would help a unit that's close to being balanced, actually be balanced without being too effective.
I was thinking about suggesting that AP rounds be free at Vet 3, but that might be too powerful.
USF at-gun AP rounds
25 Nov 2015, 21:55 PM
#1
2 
Posts: 168
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25 Nov 2015, 22:01 PM
#2
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
The AP rounds already cost 30. Which is still too high, on that note. I'd just say simply reducing the cost to 20 to start with, maybe even 15 if that's necessary. Literally the only problem with the 57mm is the guaranteed muni bleed to make it function a lot of the time.
25 Nov 2015, 22:24 PM
#3
Posts: 1384
It's fine as is. AP rounds aren't that expensive considering that they're a significant upgrade. Make it too cheap and you can use it every single time a tank shows up (Like incendiary rounds on mg42), at 30 it's just expensive enough that you have to use it tactically and not waste it.
25 Nov 2015, 22:49 PM
#4
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
It's fine as is. AP rounds aren't that expensive considering that they're a significant upgrade. Make it too cheap and you can use it every single time a tank shows up (Like incendiary rounds on mg42), at 30 it's just expensive enough that you have to use it tactically and not waste it.
AP shells for the 57mm doesn't have the impact Incen AP does though - it's not like going from damaging to possibly one-bursting light vehicles, it makes the 57mm go from probably not damaging tanks to damaging tanks in a fairly average manner (assuming the slightly lower pen but high fire-rate balances out). The cooldown is significant enough for the decision-making involved in it, and a player should not be hampered like that to use AT guns for, well, AT.
When I think about it some more, I'd think it entirely possible that it'd be necessary to tone down its other advantages in exchange for that. But I really think the cost of the 57mm's AP shells just ain't right, it'd be a bit like if a mortar had to pay munitions each time to shoot over objects.
25 Nov 2015, 23:55 PM
#5
Posts: 304
The AP rounds already cost 30. Which is still too high, on that note. I'd just say simply reducing the cost to 20 to start with, maybe even 15 if that's necessary. Literally the only problem with the 57mm is the guaranteed muni bleed to make it function a lot of the time.
double penatration for 30 muni. it's not expensive at all.
26 Nov 2015, 00:01 AM
#6
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
double penatration for 30 muni. it's not expensive at all.
30 nearly every single time it will be used once the first medium hits the field...for a bonus that just brings it up to the average.
Tossing a grenade every time your infantry fights will drain you, an AT gun or two doing that is going to add up.
26 Nov 2015, 00:04 AM
#7
4 Posts: 474
Take aim needs some serious nerfing if AP rounds are buffed. That thing can self spot for itself when it gets vet 1 permanently for 30 munitions. Plus, that extra range as well.
26 Nov 2015, 00:12 AM
#8
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Take aim needs some serious nerfing if AP rounds are buffed. That thing can self spot for itself when it gets vet 1 permanently for 30 munitions. Plus, that extra range as well.
Making it a temporary buff is probably the right thing to do with it in general since, like you said, you can basically just keep it on permanently because who uses an AT gun to cover flanks?
26 Nov 2015, 00:25 AM
#9
3 
Posts: 545
It's fine as is. AP rounds aren't that expensive considering that they're a significant upgrade. Make it too cheap and you can use it every single time a tank shows up (Like incendiary rounds on mg42), at 30 it's just expensive enough that you have to use it tactically and not waste it.
The USF AT gun does need them every time a tank shows up mate, that or it's bounce bounce bounce. Not fine
26 Nov 2015, 01:07 AM
#10
1 
Posts: 2885
Why is this thread in gameplay forums? It is obviously ballance thread and the word "ballance" is even in opening post. Twice.
26 Nov 2015, 01:10 AM
#11
2 Posts: 168
Why is this thread in gameplay forums? It is obviously ballance thread and the word "ballance" is even in opening post. Twice.
Mmmm I misclicked
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26 Nov 2015, 01:26 AM
#12
Posts: 403
Get AT gun to vet 1 and then just run around with it as a scout unit 
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
26 Nov 2015, 03:50 AM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Vet0: AP shells is a modal. Slower RoF and other stats but same pen as other AT guns.
Vet1: timed ability, not permanent as it's been use now.
Vet1: timed ability, not permanent as it's been use now.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Nov 2015, 05:41 AM
#14
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
US At Gun is just fine. No need to change it.
26 Nov 2015, 05:48 AM
#15
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
It's fine, cheap price and fast RoF means medium tanks and below will quickly be brought down. For only 270 MP it does the job and you can counter the lower penetration by getting two or three and that medium tanks only needs 4 shots to be destroyed. The AP rounds could receive a slight buff for heavier targets, it isn't really designed for that which the excellent jackson is meant for.
26 Nov 2015, 05:56 AM
#16
Posts: 168
The AP rounds already cost 30. Which is still too high, on that note. I'd just say simply reducing the cost to 20 to start with, maybe even 15 if that's necessary. Literally the only problem with the 57mm is the guaranteed muni bleed to make it function a lot of the time.
Ofc usf need a buf with this shit ATG !!!
Usf is facing the hardest tanks to deffite and we get thus shit atg ? !
Wille Op aixe get perfect ATG ... for what ? To penetrate paper sherman ? Or poor m10 thet got nerfed to hell ?
Its a game it has to be ballanced ...
Why vs paper tanks you get powerfull atgs
But vs best armore in the game you get shit ATG?
26 Nov 2015, 06:43 AM
#17
1 Posts: 1276
USF due to their glass tanks and poor pathfinding on their tanks means their AT gun needs to be god lol. Their vet is rather good but they get wiped so fast that you often dont really see a AT gun above vet 1.
26 Nov 2015, 06:44 AM
#18
Posts: 1384
The USF AT gun does need them every time a tank shows up mate, that or it's bounce bounce bounce. Not fine
57mm has 140/125/115 penetration. Which means even at long range it will reliably penetrate medium tanks and anything weaker.
It has better penetration than a t-34/76, which is a unit that does just fine against medium armour. The only medium tank to give it a run for its money (50% penetration) is the OKW PzIV at 234 armour.
26 Nov 2015, 07:19 AM
#19
Posts: 304
The USF AT gun does need them every time a tank shows up mate, that or it's bounce bounce bounce. Not fine
Use ap and You will get good penetration with the highest Rof. This is temporally better state than german Atgun. Why do they have good base penetration with its the highest Rof and low mp cost?
26 Nov 2015, 10:17 AM
#20
8 Posts: 2470
the problem with the 57mm is the same one the soviets had for a while; it's a substandard weapon and USF doesn't have a good alternative. it's not that the weapon is under powered or cost inefficient, it's just that it's ot a good tool for dealing with the axis units. it would be one thing if USF also had a standard AT gun but they don't and that lack hurts them in several situations. quantity over quality does't really work i coh2 because it's a game about unit preservation and the "quantity" units don't have any advantage over the "quality" units other than price, which is what they get for being weaker.
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