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russian armor

Some inconsistencies and Issues

14 Jan 2016, 18:41 PM
#41
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

Does anyone else think its kind of weird that .50 Cals on Shermans are 70 Muni when MG42 Pintles are 50? Do they have that much better DPS?


Yes, according to stat.coh2.hu data the 40% higher cost is justified by a better perfomance of 20,5% more dps on far and 0,48% more dps at near.
14 Jan 2016, 19:02 PM
#42
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1



Yes, according to stat.coh2.hu data the 40% higher cost is justified by a better perfomance of 20,5% more dps on far and 0,48% more dps at near.


Thanks, I probably never noticed how much better .50 Cal is since Sherman is usually running for it's life from Shreks lol
14 Jan 2016, 19:20 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

snip
14 Jan 2016, 20:59 PM
#44
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

I think B4 is very incostitent in its job and should be brought in line with panzuerwerfer
14 Jan 2016, 21:16 PM
#45
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


It has worse stats in almost every regard: veterancy


Panther:

Panther PzKpfw V Medium Tank
Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
+10% armour +20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed
-30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration

Comet:


Comet Cruiser Tank


Fires White phosphorus instead of normal smoke,This phosphourus burns infantry units all the way to death,blocks vision,and stops vehicles from firing.
Turret horizontal movement spend increased by 35%,+30% accuracy
Speed increased by 30%,Crew will attack nearby targets with their grenades by default,acceleration and decelleration increased by 20%

White Phos that kills infantry, better accuracy, better speed and auto attack grenades don't really sound like a worse deal than just the stat buffs the Panther has.

Both are good tanks that focus on different things. It's like wondering why the Tiger I has better general performance than the specialized Jadgtiger.
14 Jan 2016, 21:41 PM
#46
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2



White Phos that kills infantry, better accuracy, better speed and auto attack grenades don't really sound like a worse deal than just the stat buffs the Panther has.



I prefer an armor increase by 32 points, the ability to take one more shot and a reload decrease by 30% over slightly better acceleration/decelaration, speed and an accuracy boost.
Grenades are a joke. Phosphor rounds are good but buggy and they don't stun vehicles and they hardly burn any models.

You also forgot the OKW Panther who just happens have very powerful vet4 and 5 bonuses.

The Comet is a good tank, but the Panther is much more cost efficienty, especially because the Comet performs very unreliable and inconsistent in it's role.
14 Jan 2016, 22:11 PM
#47
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

...
You also forgot the OKW Panther who just happens have very powerful vet4 and 5 bonuses.

The Comet is a good tank, but the Panther is much more cost efficienty, especially because the Comet performs very unreliable and inconsistent in it's role.


I Personally prefer Comet over panther...but they have different roles, one is medium tank the other medium tank/tank hunter...

OKW Panther cost more fuel than the comet...and vet 4 and 5 on Panthers comes rather late (if it comes).

Comet is superior in the following areas:
Smaller size
more rear armor
war speed comes at veto 0 and is superior to blitz...
non doctrinal smoke
White Ph. out ranges ATGs and kills them from far
Grenade kills ATG from close
More LOS
Detect invisible
Vehicle tracking
better R.O.F
Better accuracy on the move
More AOE
Less scatter
(generally better at flanking)



14 Jan 2016, 22:25 PM
#48
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



I prefer an armor increase by 32 points


That comes out to be only a 6% higher chance of deflection from minimum range and a 5% higher chance at maximum range from the Comet, not very significant.

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2016, 22:11 PMMyself


Comet is superior in the following areas:
Smaller size
more rear armor
war speed comes at veto 0 and is superior to blitz...
no doctrinal smoke
White Ph. out ranges ATGs and kills them from
Grenade kills ATG from close
More LOS
Detect invisible
Vehicle tracking
better R.O.F
Better accuracy on the move
(generally better at flanking)


I would also include a much larger AOE so that it can kill infantry and very low scatter, which is more useful on tanks.


snip

Welcome back.
16 Jan 2016, 08:50 AM
#49
avatar of Mr.Shogun

Posts: 4

Unlike Panther,comet can decimate infantry so yeah not a great idea to compare those units
16 Jan 2016, 09:09 AM
#50
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2016, 15:18 PMKatitof
PaKs sandbags should ghost.

People would just crush them then.


Phosphor rounds are good but buggy and they don't stun vehicles and they hardly burn any models.

They're one of the strongest abilities in the game. Basically a decrew button for any Support teams up to 70 meters away, including Anti-Tank Guns.
16 Jan 2016, 12:03 PM
#51
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2016, 18:16 PMTobis


Why do you think it has better ai at long range, but worse at short range?

The main gun has 3 times the AOE, 50% less scatter, and 50% better moving accuracy. It is better at all ranges. Do you honestly think the Panther is an effective AI platform?



They're one of the strongest abilities in the game. Basically a decrew button for any Support teams up to 70 meters away, including Anti-Tank Guns.


Unlike Panther,comet can decimate infantry so yeah not a great idea to compare those units


jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2016, 22:25 PMTobis


I would also include a much larger AOE so that it can kill infantry and very low scatter, which is more useful on tanks.


I´ll leave just this here:

Keep in mind that I remove immortality on the rifles after they were set to hostile.

16 Jan 2016, 12:07 PM
#52
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Comet AI so superior :foreveralone:

You should not post a vid of both fighting IS-2 frontally :sibHyena:
16 Jan 2016, 12:59 PM
#53
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2016, 12:07 PMKatitof
Comet AI so superior :foreveralone:

You should not post a vid of both fighting IS-2 frontally :sibHyena:


That's funny, because I also ran a test with a Comet fighting a Tiger I while a Panther fought an IS-2. The Tiger was killed 3 Comet shots after the Panther had killed the IS-2. I also tested Vet3 Panther vs. Vet3 Comet. The Panther survived with about half of it's health. All those things are highly rng based though.
16 Jan 2016, 13:31 PM
#54
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2016, 12:07 PMKatitof
...
You should not post a vid of both fighting IS-2 frontally...

Because Comets vs IS-2 happens quite often...(at least as often as panther vs IS-2)
16 Jan 2016, 13:54 PM
#55
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2016, 13:31 PMMyself

Because Comets vs IS-2 happens quite often...(at least as often as panther vs IS-2)


You are right, we should put a Jagdtiger or KT at it's place. (wait wat?)
16 Jan 2016, 17:15 PM
#56
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4









I´ll leave just this here:

Keep in mind that I remove immortality on the rifles after they were set to hostile.



jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2016, 12:07 PMKatitof
Comet AI so superior :foreveralone:

You should not post a vid of both fighting IS-2 frontally :sibHyena:


Here, I took the liberty of recording a video for you of what actually happens in the game. People dont just stand around in open ground, they will be in cover or moving around bunched up where the Comet will be much more effective. Oh, look, the Comet kills all the squads twice as fast.

The video also shows off the fantastically low scatter of the gun.

16 Jan 2016, 17:44 PM
#57
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2016, 17:15 PMTobis




Here, I took the liberty of recording a video for you of what actually happens in the game. People dont just stand around in open ground, they will be in cover or moving around bunched up where the Comet will be much more effective. Oh, look, the Comet kills all the squads twice as fast.

The video also shows off the fantastically low scatter of the gun.




That's a good point, however your video is just as realistic and biased as mine. Who would stay around in yellow cover while being attacked by a gun with AoE? Claiming that the Panther has better AI was mistake/bold exaggereation of mine, yet it's not bad or even useless. My problem is the current overall performance of the Comet compared to the Panther when considering the factions strengths and weaknesses. It's more expensive to rush while maintaining an adequate power and it excels neither in AI nor AT. This becomes very bad when there´s no combined arms play possible (thanks to the british design). The vital elements of an army in the lategame are: tanks, infantry, artillery - whereas the british can rely on tanks and infantry only.
16 Jan 2016, 18:19 PM
#58
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4




That's a good point, however your video is just as realistic and biased as mine. Who would stay around in yellow cover while being attacked by a gun with AoE? Claiming that the Panther has better AI was mistake/bold exaggereation of mine, yet it's not bad or even useless. My problem is the current overall performance of the Comet compared to the Panther when considering the factions strengths and weaknesses. It's more expensive to rush while maintaining an adequate power and it excels neither in AI nor AT. This becomes very bad when there´s no combined arms play possible (thanks to the british design). The vital elements of an army in the lategame are: tanks, infantry, artillery - whereas the british can rely on tanks and infantry only.


You can often find infantry in cover with the Comet, you can drive right up to them while they are fighting infantry. The low scatter and good moving accuracy give a pretty decent chance to knock 3 models out in the first shot. You aren't going to do shit surprising somebody with a Panther.
17 Jan 2016, 13:04 PM
#59
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

... This becomes very bad when there´s no combined arms play possible (thanks to the british design).The vital elements of an army in the lategame are: tanks, infantry, artillery - whereas the british can rely on tanks and infantry only.


And that why British have non doctrinal base artillery, some of meanest doctrinal off map abilities, tank grenades and white Phosphorous, on Comets, that kills models ...they will also be getting rocket artillery soon...

I personally prefer Comet over Panther, since I find to have more utility...
18 Jan 2016, 01:23 AM
#60
avatar of drChengele
Patrion 14

Posts: 640 | Subs: 1

Comet has a bit more AI punch to it than Panther does, which might account the price difference. However, the Comet has absolutely abysmal veterancy bonuses when compared to the Panther, which is conveniently not accounted for when discussing said price difference. Shrug.
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