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russian armor

Some inconsistencies and Issues

24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PM
#1
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

There are inconsistencies in some stats of units

Comet. Panther has better stats and is cheaper:


T34/85. Recently there have been improvements in the ShermanE8, Why not T34/85?
Why with +10fuel has a better tank?


Pershing and Firefly need to be addressed




Issues

-Forward Retreat Point
Who have 'Forward Retreat Point' gain a great advantage to units that can return to the battlefield in seconds.
For example: A average units have 1'25'' to return the middle 3v3/4v4. With 'Forward Retreat Point' this becomes 15 seconds or less. The faction that does not have this advantage will cost much more reach and when holder FRP will be ultra defensive (bunkers, wires and defensive blocks)a full reinforced units. This allows harass very easily and very quickly reach positions.
FRP OKW can be positioned in firts two or three minutes of game.
FRP USF will do it in 8 or 10 min
FRP BRIT in medium-game
Suggestions: Disblock upgrade 'Forward Retreat Point' in all factions with latest tech (T3 or T4)

-Flares. OKW this needs a review. Flares can easily be spamming with 20 cooldown seconds:


-Ability 'Hold the line' UK this bugged

-Heavy Engineers. With recent changes should be eliminated slow

-Sturmtiger it is very common to be abandoned and remains standing with 100%HP

-FHQ sov should be in CP1

-Pop Valentine Should be reviewed:
Puma 8pop
T34/76 have 10pop
T34/85 have 14pop
Valentine have 12pop

-Four Players british with Gliders is very difficult landing, because there is no space for them. No landing strip and most maps are chargued of OBSTACLES, which damage the glider.
Suggestions: Logistic Glide would be repair by RoyalEngineers

-AEC_Armored_Car. It is a useless vehicle compared with other counterparts



-Vickers HMG squad Formations
The formation squad, ahead of members vickers

-Axis Can throw two grenades at the same time. Tommies 1 same time.



UPDATE 13/01

-Throw in FOW
You can Throw OKW 'Assault Artillery' in FOW and no BRITS 'Mortar Cover'. Obviously OKW 'Assault Artillery' work incorrect.


-MortarHT enable flame
MortarHT WER has always enabled flame and others MortarHT haven't a second enable ability



UPDATE 14/01

-Revealed in FOW
When the unit is revealed and again FOW, 17 pounds shows his 'shadow', but not pak43.
IMO pak43 should show his 'shadow'.


-AA Suggestion (bofors/AA truck): Area of positioning should be an obstacle for construction on post (VP, Fuel, munition points). This way would cover only half the point of capture and would be less dangerous to capture.
24 Nov 2015, 15:18 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

AEC is closer to Puma then AA HTs.
13 Jan 2016, 12:04 PM
#3
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

-Throw in FOW
You can Throw OKW 'Assault Artillery' in FOW and no BRITS 'Mortar Cover'. Obviously OKW 'Assault Artillery' work incorrect.


-MortarHT enable flame
MortarHT WER has always enabled flame and others MortarHT haven't a second enable ability
13 Jan 2016, 12:11 PM
#4
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

-Sturmtiger it is very common to be abandoned and remains standing with 100%HP

It get abandoned if it under fire while reloading unless you referring to something else...

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

-Pop Valentine Should be reviewed:
Valentine have 12pop

true but valentine has added utility. The ability should be changed so that Valentine comes without recon mode but can be upgraded like the "command vehicle" and thus be limited to 1, with a pop of 8-10.
13 Jan 2016, 12:19 PM
#5
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

OKW flare is issue, right, 60 muni for something way better than recon planes. It was acceptable when okw had 67% resources rate but not now.
13 Jan 2016, 12:38 PM
#6
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

Cost effectiveness of rocket arty vs mobile howitzers is also something to be looked at. Mobile howitzer are trash compared to rocket arty vehicles and yet are much more expensive.
13 Jan 2016, 12:49 PM
#7
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Good post and work. But relic cares :D.
13 Jan 2016, 12:54 PM
#8
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

-Flares. OKW this needs a review. Flares can easily be spamming with 20 cooldown seconds:
...


Which flares are you referring to? deploy by units?off maps? doctrinal stock?

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

Comet. Panther has better stats and is cheaper:

Only Ostheer panther is cheaper, OKW Panther is more expensive. Further more Comet is medium tank that has better AI gun with more ROF ,no doctrinal smoke, non vet warspeed (which better than bltiz), smaller size, faster vet, more rear armor while the Panther is hybrid tank/tank-destroyer with more specialized role.

Panther does not have better stat, has better AT stats, but direct comparison can be misleading..
13 Jan 2016, 12:57 PM
#9
avatar of carloff

Posts: 301

TS can you make same thing with Vehicle Button vs Smoke?
13 Jan 2016, 13:10 PM
#10
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

I see a lot of, "this unit compared to this unit" Well it's balance man.

Grens are able to only have 1 LMG, compared to their riflemen counterpart that can have 2.
Meanwhile cons have none... (example) just balance...

It could be more expensive to tech for one faction then the other. So the units in that tech will be priced and perform differently. Unit timing also has something to do with it.

13 Jan 2016, 13:25 PM
#11
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua
There are inconsistencies in some stats of units

Comet. Panther has better stats and is cheaper:



Hello.

Comparing units taken separatly is cherrypicking.
To truly compare two units based on cost/efficiency you have to take EVERY costs you had to pay to get your unit.
If you take in account the teching cost, you may have the surprise to have something similar. I mean :
British T1T2T3 + hammer tech = more or less 660 MP + 195 fuel OK
OST T1T2T3T4 + T4building = more or less 660MP + 205 fuel OK
Quite similar isn't it?
Not really.
In a NormalGame™, an OST player cant afford to skip every tier until the fourth, even a single tier missing can be desastrous.
So in order to have the true cost to have a Panther, you need to add the costs of tier buildings, which add something like 480 MP and 105 fuel.
Indeed a panther is individually cheaper than a Comet, but you made a longer way to get one.
Of cource this last calcul is imprecise because it means that you never build any other units. The true cost imply that you divide your teching costs by the number of units you made into each tier.
I wont drown you into calculs, lets just say that the cost/efficiency of both are fair trade™.

Kozo.
13 Jan 2016, 13:26 PM
#12
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

Some of these are definitely issues (flares, for example) but others like the US Mortar halfy not having another ability or Comet vs Panther (Comet has better AI and 2 abilities you didn't take into account at all, which is incredibly ironic when you're concerned about mortar halftracks) are nothing.
13 Jan 2016, 13:33 PM
#13
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

-AEC_Armored_Car. It is a useless vehicle compared with other counterparts




I think you may make a mistake when talking of counterpart.
The AEC is closer to a Puma than anything else. (basically the same unit)
There is no HT counterpart in the british rooster. You can maybe consider the Brencarrier.

Kozo.
13 Jan 2016, 13:34 PM
#14
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua
-Ability 'Hold the line' UK this bugged


If am not mistaken it works in sector caped by the player using it. Maybe it should be changed to sectors bordering enemy sector...maybe a price decrease also...

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2015, 15:10 PMcapiqua

-Throw in FOW
You can Throw OKW 'Assault Artillery' in FOW and no BRITS 'Mortar Cover'. Obviously OKW 'Assault Artillery' work incorrect.

Assault artillery is sector ability that can only be used in enemy sector as preparation for an attack, soften target with arty then advance during smoke so I think it work as intended.

Mortar cover can be used both offensively and defensibly.
13 Jan 2016, 14:50 PM
#15
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

*17 pndr 20 pop vs pak 43 being 12

*USF "fired up" gives units debuffs after active ability, Wher "sprint" doesn't

*Jagtiger has 85 range, 17pndr has 80

*Hold the line def needs a fix, only works on sectors you have capped, costs loads of muni and doesn't do anything due to this.
13 Jan 2016, 15:00 PM
#16
avatar of carloff

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2016, 13:25 PMKozokus

In a NormalGame™, an OST player cant afford to skip every tier until the fourth, even a single tier missing can be desastrous.

Huh, but ESL finals show what your point is not right. OST can play only with T1 into T4. Or even T1 into callins.
13 Jan 2016, 15:26 PM
#17
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2016, 15:00 PMcarloff

Huh, but ESL finals show what your point is not right. OST can play only with T1 into T4. Or even T1 into callins.


Yeah i know :/, but i would argue that they where not "normal games". It was a final, both players knew each others, their strategies and whether or not they could be greedy at some point. This part shows they had a particular plan that is not applicable blindly on the ladder.

However you are right at pointing that the cost of T4 units can be diminished with a particular gameplan. It is simply possible.

Kozo.
13 Jan 2016, 15:28 PM
#18
avatar of carloff

Posts: 301

My point here is simple. Some sides are free to skip tiers, some don't.
13 Jan 2016, 16:15 PM
#19
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

I see what you mean, but still,
SOV OKW and USF can skip tier 1 or 2
OST can skip 123 but it still cost 300MP and 130 fuel to "skip" 3 tiers :p
only the UKF cant skip anything, poor lads :p

Kozo.
13 Jan 2016, 16:27 PM
#20
avatar of carloff

Posts: 301

UKF can't skip tea too.
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