Balance Preview Patchnotes

New version of the mod
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=557952243

OKW:
Starting fuel reduced from 40 to 0
Panzershrecks cost back to 90
Volks cost increase from 235 to 250

The starting fuel reduction is needed. But why not give combat package another ability except shreck? After all the cold system has been removed.

New version of the mod
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=557952243

OKW:
Starting fuel reduced from 40 to 0
Panzershrecks cost back to 90
Volks cost increase from 235 to 250

I think you guys need to reconsider the brit nerfs, especially regarding Anvil, Infantry sections and their cost for upgrades.

Shreck is honestly fine. Never understood why people dislike it so much. Now if Volks suddenly get good against infantry - and that's a real possibility right now - it becomes an issue. Until then, it's not.

Wish vanilla PanzerGrenadiers got some kind of received accuracy buff

Stuka CAS / Typhoon loiter was good but not crazy OP

British Bofors, Valentine, Sexton and 17pdr are still worthless

70 munitions would be fine for heavy engineers if the speed penalty was removed / reduced. I was expecting something around 50 muni

Sweeping nerfs to UKF while simultaneous huge buffs for OKW, really gonna throw balance into the air and make it impossible gauge the true effectiveness of changes....

They fixed captain, but did they fix LT as well??

one step at a time.

one small step at a time.

one baby step at a time.

one infant baby crawl at a time.

...

I still hate the terminator vet on the rifleman. Volks is too strong against rifleman up until the point rifleman reach terminator vets and the situation turn a 180. That veterancy is too strong.

It's so they can be on equal footing with german elite infantry.

It's so they can be on equal footing with german elite infantry.

But isn't that supposed to be the role of Paratroopers and Rangers?

It's so they can be on equal footing with german elite infantry.

german elite infantry is a non threat. Ober is far away from their previous strength. Panzergrenadier and Fallschirm had always been dodgy. Rifleman doesn't need their terminator buff to fight german "elite" infantry.

You don't except a 280 mp unit to fight equally against a ~400mp unit anyway. If the rifleman does fight equally against ober then it's a clear sign something went wrong.

The problem was the grenadier's vet accuracy bonus and the lmg42. Nerf the grenadier's veterancy, don't buff the rifleman's own veterancy.

german elite infantry is a non threat. Ober is far away from their previous strength. Panzergrenadier and Fallschirm had always been dodgy. Rifleman doesn't need their terminator buff to fight german "elite" infantry.

You don't except a 280 mp unit to fight equally against a ~400mp unit anyway. If the rifleman does fight equally against ober then it's a clear sign something went wrong.

The problem was the grenadier's vet accuracy bonus and the lmg42. Nerf the grenadier's veterancy, don't buff the rifleman's own veterancy.

+1.Agreed.

But isn't that supposed to be the role of Paratroopers and Rangers?

Right, and I'm not saying this was the right way to fix this, I think the idea was that they didn't want elite infantry slaughtering your main infantry in the late game if you didn't go airborne, and now the more recently added, cavalry company. That's why they buffed cons received accuracy, so they wouldn't get dominated later in the game when axis rolls out elite troops.

german elite infantry is a non threat. Ober is far away from their previous strength. Panzergrenadier and Fallschirm had always been dodgy. Rifleman doesn't need their terminator buff to fight german "elite" infantry.

You don't except a 280 mp unit to fight equally against a ~400mp unit anyway. If the rifleman does fight equally against ober then it's a clear sign something went wrong.

The problem was the grenadier's vet accuracy bonus and the lmg42. Nerf the grenadier's veterancy, don't buff the rifleman's own veterancy.

I don't think the intention was for them to be equal, but at one point it was so one sided that it was ridiculous.

However, the issue then was that they also nerfed obers, they buffed bars ( some say not enough ), zooks are cheaper, the pack howizter buffs. I think the combination of everything kind of led to the current state. But even now I really don't think it's that bad. Calling them terminators is a bit of an exaggeration imo.

I thought the point of the previous buff to riflemen veterancy was that when LATE GAME came, a player who did not go the route of a commander having callin infantry can still use riflemen to engage other vetted enemy infantry, or strong elite infantry.

Did we suddenly forget when riflemen were inadequate infantry for late game? Or are we expecting USF's own rehaul to change things?

I thought the point of the previous buff to riflemen veterancy was that when LATE GAME came, a player who did not go the route of a commander having callin infantry can still use riflemen to engage other vetted enemy infantry, or strong elite infantry.

Did we suddenly forget when riflemen were inadequate infantry for late game? Or are we expecting USF's own rehaul to change things?

Exactly, I could probably find a lot of posts talking about how rifleman and scripts don't scale well into the late game before that update.

Its a bold patch,but -
Increase volks MP cost to 250?
Remove shreck to sturmpio.
OKW tech more costlier
Churchil -`10 fuel.

But even now I really don't think it's that bad. Calling them terminators is a bit of an exaggeration imo.

It's actually not if you look at the stats. Remember volks with reduced accuracy at vet 5?

I thought the point of the previous buff to riflemen veterancy was that when LATE GAME came, a player who did not go the route of a commander having callin infantry can still use riflemen to engage other vetted enemy infantry, or strong elite infantry.

Did we suddenly forget when riflemen were inadequate infantry for late game? Or are we expecting USF's own rehaul to change things?

Pack howitzer make a big difference. Being able to shell enemy strong point instead of charging them is a godsend.

.50cal are also pretty decent now.

the problem was that the rifleman was the only decent unit in the USF arsenal. As strong as they were, you can't expect them to do everything by themselves.

Unfortunately the whole idiocy with "smoke and flank" encourage and perpetuate the idea USF should rely on rifle spam.

Pack howitzer make a big difference. Being able to shell enemy strong point instead of charging them is a godsend.

But the riflemen is not the pak howitzer, and we still hate both the pak howitzer and leig. Besides, nerfing riflemen vet will cause the annoyingness of the pak howitzer to be used as a crutch and an excuse for it existing as it is.

(Sees further quote)

I hate the concept of USF being a one unit army as well (rifle spam), but then we need to yell at relic for designing the faction that way.

Played a few rounds as OKW vs. Expert AI just now. (Version 1)

First impression is I really like the new OKW tech layout and agree with the Version 2 changes as the 40 fuel start vehicle timing was waaaay too fast.

100% Munitions might still be a bit too much even with 90 Muni shreks. It feels a bit too easy to spam G43 Panzerfusis and LMG Obers with all the added Munitions.

I also feel like Kubels need 5 fuel as well to prevent salvage abuse and super harassment. (On some maps its just way too easy to decap cutoffs with Kubel speed it feels like) They also beat Rifleman and Tommies 1vs1 a bit too easily in the early game since they both have no snares early on or AT. Not to mention that 210 MP is pretty damn cheap given its DPS AND ability to cap. I feel like their Rear armor should be reduced as well... why should Kubel get special snowflake armor that prevents flanking from rear? (Far as I know all other light vehicles have lower rear armor)

Still, I do still like the Kubel change a lot - it gives OKW that early game aggression that its supposed to have... it just feels a tad cheesy right now.

On a side note RIP Anvil I really don't see why anyone would go Anvil now as Comet is such a better deal. :/

You can buff everything that's not riflemen if you want to see less riflespam. But I give up hopes on that type of redesign of USF or the jackson ever being buffed(it has less HP than a m10 ).

But the riflemen is not the pak howitzer, and we still hate both the pak howitzer and leig. Besides, nerfing riflemen vet will cause the annoyingness of the pak howitzer to be used as a crutch and an excuse for it existing as it is.

(Sees further quote)

I hate the concept of USF being a one unit army as well (rifle spam), but then we need to yell at relic for designing the faction that way.

Having decent artillery make a big difference for the rifleman. There are just going to be a point where attacking head on shouldn't be a viable option.

Pack howitzer and artillery in general are critical part of any faction. pack howitzer might get less annoying but I doubt less powerful.