Balance Preview Patchnotes

OKW armor at Panzer HQ needs a real price increase, either the teching or the tanks! they are too cheap for the time they arrive, let's not forget the fantastic benefits the teching trucks give OKW!

T4 to 120-130 fuel is reasonable.

Very nice update.

T4 to 120-130 fuel is reasonable.

Can't wait for it since it will completely shutdown early Shwerer secure 1/3 of the map strat + ISG spam from secured area. Not forgetting the fact OKW will must produce medium vehicle to not get rek by Sov/USF/Brit mediums.

Works in 1vs1,2vs2,3vs3,4vs4

In 1vs1 and 4vs4, from experience, I can't count the number of time I'm pushing hard OKW guys really early in game to be stopped by a fast Shwerer deployed I have nothing to counter before T3.

Please Relic, increase T4 fuel cost!

It arrives much faster and devs want it to NOT be able to counter any allied vehicle that they can build at that time to make it only AI (you have shreck support in the end)

yeah this makes sense. There are enough schrecks, to support the luchs.

Not forgetting the fact OKW will must produce medium vehicle to not get rek by Sov/USF/Brit mediums.

OKW dont need a medium tank against allied mediums imo. They have at this point enough raketen and schrecks to kill every allied medium. Im using most of the time 2 Raketen and 3-4 volks with schrecks.

There is no way that T4 can stay in this shape. Panthers spam is real.
T4 must be delayed to at least 120F (tho with 120F Panther can come earlier than E8).
120F and/or side upgrades for schrecks and nades are needed.

Panther spam? nobody gets a panther these days. when it comes to dealing with medium stock armour the p4 with bulletins is a way better option. when it comes to dealing with the high dps but frail allied TD's the puma or the jp4 is the better option. only when dealing with the is2 or other achieves you may find use for it.

OKW dont need a medium tank against allied mediums imo. They have at this point enough raketen and schrecks to kill every allied medium.

/facepalm

lets assume the allied player has some micro abilities and properly supports his tanks with infantry.

...though I'd hardly have an issue with gutting concussion for a vet 0 incendiary grenade and moving vet bonuses around to compensate.

As I said, that wouldn't even be absoutely necessary, as the vet lvl that unlocks the stun grenades also holds other bonuses.

Sturmpios are by far already the best repair unit in the game, thier utility doesn't require the grenade to be moved to them.

The idea to move the incendiary grenade (and probablly replace the stun grenade with it) came into existence when Sturmpios were more expensive; with such a change, considering a price increase again would be reasonable ofc; I forgot to mention that.

Also, about the utility aspect. I always disliked the idea that the relatively cheap Volks who are everywhere on the field should be the garrison deniers (through incendiary grenades); if the more expensive Sturmpioneers had the role to clear garrsions (with flame nades) a player would need to make more elaborate choices like going for more expensive Sturms in rather early game or not etc.

Also, as I said, it really suits the aggressive feel of Sturms a lot better to have such flame nades; I don't see any sense behind the frontline dudes that Volks are suppossed to represent having such a grenade - not balance-wise & not design/immersion-wise! Did the german army hand out incendiary grenades in large numbers (instead of Stielhandgrenades)? According to Relic they did. That makes even less sense than the molotovs on conscripts (which at least can be traced back to a cliché, so at least it generates some kind of a ww2 feel).
It doesn't take a complete ww2 buff to realize the absence of the Stielhandgrenade (in favor of a weird fictional flame nade) in a ww2 rts game like this.

In conclusion, if you want OKW to get their weapon unlocks and grenades unlocked through teching like Ostheer, they have to pay the prices that come with those upgrades, in the form of more expensive teching costs. Otherwise, the only way to balance them is to give them seperate side tech to pay for these upgrades with.

I generally agree with this statement and would like to see the old volks grenade return in the process. Also, with the 100% income, OKW should follow Ostheer in the 'german theme' of high tech costs. If german stuff is more expensive, that somehow makes it more ww2-ish.

yeah this makes sense. There are enough schrecks, to support the luchs.




OKW dont need a medium tank against allied mediums imo. They have at this point enough raketen and schrecks to kill every allied medium.

Actually if you micro well, your medium is usually taken down by the Pz4/Panther coming a bit later. Now if Shwerer is delayed to 120 fuel, the "bit later" will be "bit bit more later", Building more raken will not save you vs 1 medium + infantry squads, building more shreck maybe works but your volks cost more to build and reinforce.

Actually if you micro well, your medium is usually taken down by the Pz4/Panther coming a bit later. Now if Shwerer is delayed to 120 fuel, the "bit later" will be "bit bit more later", Building more raken will not save you vs 1 medium + infantry squads, building more shreck maybe works but your volks cost more to build and reinforce.

Fast luch will rekt infantry and delay enemy tanks becuase of mapcontrol

Panther spam? nobody gets a panther these days. when it comes to dealing with medium stock armour the p4 with bulletins is a way better option. when it comes to dealing with the high dps but frail allied TD's the puma or the jp4 is the better option. only when dealing with the is2 or other achieves you may find use for it.

I guess you were not in game when Panthers spam was owning everything and everywhere.

Actually if you micro well, your medium is usually taken down by the Pz4/Panther coming a bit later. Now if Shwerer is delayed to 120 fuel, the "bit later" will be "bit bit more later", Building more raken will not save you vs 1 medium + infantry squads, building more shreck maybe works but your volks cost more to build and reinforce.

Later? A bit bit later? Dude, look page or 2 behind. Pz4 can come 40 earlier than Sherman. For JP4 it might be even 55 fuel earlier than Jackson. Panther also comes earlier than E8.

Later? A bit bit later? Dude, look page or 2 behind. Pz4 can come 40 earlier than Sherman. For JP4 it might be even 55 fuel earlier than Jackson. Panther also comes earlier than E8.

Remember:



It's all by design

*Note: I'm fine with JP4 coming early. As it always came early when you went battlegrouper HQ against UKF. Its sole use as an AT platform doesn't really make it that serious of a threat as a 'rush' unit.

if OKW is designed as strong early game, remove 5 veterancy first. how about 2 verterancy system? and give low teching cost.

Panther spam? nobody gets a panther these days. when it comes to dealing with medium stock armour the p4 with bulletins is a way better option. when it comes to dealing with the high dps but frail allied TD's the puma or the jp4 is the better option. only when dealing with the is2 or other achieves you may find use for it.

+1

This is indeed the fact. I would go for a Pz4 (with 3x +5% armor) + Jpz4 like 99% of the time. With the current fuel of the T4 tech it's easy to get acces to Pz4, Jpz4 AND Panther.

if OKW is designed as strong early game, remove 5 veterancy first.

Nope, it's one of the small things that makes OKW specific. Also it encourages unit preservation.

Fast luch will rekt infantry and delay enemy tanks becuase of mapcontrol

Fast luch means no shreck, we're fighting theorycraft here, if OKW goes Luch, its 60 fuel more delay for the T3.
Not saying fast luch is not a problem, just saying if fast luch is balanced so you'll need a luch mid to counter Allies mid-game.

Later? A bit bit later? Dude, look page or 2 behind. Pz4 can come 40 earlier than Sherman. For JP4 it might be even 55 fuel earlier than Jackson. Panther also comes earlier than E8.

If T3 goes from 80 fuel to 120 or 130, its 40-50 fuel more, if in addition OKW must build a mid vehicle to stop gap Allies, its already a good point.

Now I also want to see OKW upgrades and abilities cost ammo and fuel or simply increase HQ deployment cost or put linear T1>T2>T3

Relic spoiler there patch in summer PogChamp

Nobody dont go panther spam maybe now maybe, but look at OKW cheap teching in patch mod

if OKW is designed as strong early game, remove 5 veterancy first. how about 2 verterancy system? and give low teching cost.

I agree.

OKW should get British/ USF esque Uber vet 3 instead of not so achievable vet 5.

T4 to 120-130 fuel is reasonable.

The problem is OKW has by far best medium tanks in the game with such a price at its disposal (OKW p4, jp4, panther) just compare the accessibility of these units and think what tanks other factions have that can compete with these units