Riflemen Vet breaks balance (with comparisons)

CORE INFANTRY -

Grenadiers
Vet 1(shit)
vet 2 +40% accuracy,
Vet3 -20% cooldown, -25% recharge time for Panzerfaust, -23% received accuracy

Conscripts
Vet 1(shit)
Vet 2 +40% accuracy, +25% molotov range
Vet 3 -20% weapon cooldown, -40% received accuracy, -25% AT grenade recharge

Nearly double recieved accuracy of gren.

Riflemen
Vet1 -AT grenade
Vet2 -23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Vet3 -20% received accuracy,+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

DOUBLE recieved accuracy in total.PLUS gets recieved accuracy from vet 2 instead of vet 3 which is just 1 vet due to rifle company.

Tommies
+10 Sight range in cover
Received accuracy -33%,
Adds 2 scoped enfield rifles to squad,+40% Accuracy,-20% cooldown

Still over 10% increased recieved accuracy and gets this at vet 2.Cheaper reinforce than gren, cover bonuses,5 man upgrade,dual equip,2 enfields at vet 3 etc etc.

Volksgrenadiers
10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Passive Healing, -10% received accuracy
+40% sight range, +30% accuracy
-30% cooldown, -30% reload

Above will tell you why volks are downright horrible.Even at vet 5 their recieved accuracy is 20% which is less than even grenadiers,and less than vet 2 riflemen.No upgrades,no nothing.

ELITE/ADVANCED INFANTRY -

Panzergrenadiers
Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability(shit)
-25% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy
+40% accuracy, +25% grenade range

Crucially gets its rec accuracy at vet 2 like rifles..better survivability option than grens .

Stormtroopers
Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability(shit)
+40% accuracy, +25% Bundled grenade range
-29% received accuracy

Realtively Weak vet bonuses,especially no recived acc until vet 3.But if combiend with weapon upgrade and inherent rec accuracy can become very powerful at vet 3,though still has 4 men .


Shocks
Unlocks the 'Trip Wire Flares' ability(shit)
-25% weapon cooldown, -17% received accuracy, -40% smoke grenade recharge
+40% accuracy, +25% fragmentation grenade range

Weak vet bonuses,compensating for the powerful armor and 6 men.

Guards
Unlocks the 'Trip Wire Flares' ability
+10% penetration, +30% accuracy, -17% received accuracy
+30% duration of the 'button' ability, -20% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy

Very powerful vet.Near immortal at vet 3 with40% recieved accuracy and 6 men.


Fallschirmjager
Unlocks the 'Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade' ability
-29% received accuracy, passive cloak
-10% received accuracy, passive healing
+30% accuracy
14.3% weapon range +30% accuracy

Actually has good vet bonuses,too bad even greater vet requirements than ober at 440mp.



Panzerfusilier
Unlocks the 'Flare' ability
+40% accuracy, +25% grenade and flare range
-20% weapon cooldown, -25% grenade and flare recharge, -23% received accuracy
+20% accuracy
passive sprint

No scaling,but atleast doesn't wipe easy.

Obersoldaten
Unlocks the 'Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade' ability
+40% accuracy, -25% weapon cooldown
-29% received accuracy, passive healing
-29% received accuracy, can now suppress infantry
passive sprint

Becomes really strong at vet 4 living upto vet feature.Too bad can't reach there.

Paratroopers
25% ability recharge time
+25% accuracy, +25% grenade range, Passive Healing
-20% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy

Rangers
-25% Ability Recharge
Heals out of combat, +25% accuracy, +25% Grenade throw range
-20% cooldown, -29% Received Accuracy

Commandoes
Unlocks light smoke grenade
+25% accuracy,+25% to grenade range
Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat,and heals out of combat.

Poor scaling.


Above will tell you just how powerful riflemen and british vet bonuses make them(conscripts too in terms of survivability,if not firepower) in comparison to grenadier and volksgrenadier -both of which have like half of the rec accuracy.Plus lower models for gren.
The IS and rifle vet bonuses are overshadowing even those of elite infantry,and are far easier to vet up -especially with rifle company.

thanks for all these numbers

austerlitz thread no 9999999 pls nerf allies

Maybe buff all the other units?

I was under the belief this was mostly common knowledge.

thanks for all these numbers

Anyone can find em' here: http://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide

Maybe buff all the other units?

Let's not let the power creep stay.

Could someone explain to me what is Recieved Accuracy? I never had a good explanation from the description.

Is it the chance that the unit/model will take a hit?

I think that there should be a bigger difference between elite and basic troops-but this hurts USF a lot.

I think that riflemen vet should be more about utility (ability, sight, reinforce cost) and scaling should come from the BAR or bazooka. (Buff both.)

I think that there should be a bigger difference between elite and basic troops-but this hurts USF a lot.

veterancy bonus are almost always multiplicative, and multiplicative effect are essentially self adjusting.

A more powerful squad will get more "raw" bonus due to the multiplicative effect.

I don't really see it?

Summed up vet bonuses for accuracy, cooldown, received accuracy.

Grenadiers: +40% accuracy, -20% cooldown, -23% received accuracy

Volksgrenadiers: -20% received accuracy, +60% accuracy -30% cooldown, -30% reload

Conscripts: 40% accuracy, -20% cooldown, -40% received accuracy,

Riflemen: -43% received accuracy, -20% cooldown, +30% accuracy,

Tommies -33% received accuracy, +40% accuracy, -20% cooldown




So from the basic infantry, we can see that germans get roughly -20% received accuracy while allies get around -40%. All infantry get -20% cooldown and bonus accuracy. However, the axis infantry benefit more from cooldown reduction and accuracy bonuses and tend to have higher damage per model than the allies in the late game. The germans also have more scatter, which means that missed shots can still hit other models. (i.e model A is aimed at, shot misses and hits model B)

I think you're too focused on the received accuracy bonuses, honestly.

I think that there should be a bigger difference between elite and basic troops-but this hurts USF a lot.

I think that riflemen vet should be more about utility (ability, sight, reinforce cost) and scaling should come from the BAR or bazooka. (Buff both.)

Make Rifle vet 3 instead reduce the cost of abilities by the same amount as the cooldown reduction

Axis ragequits would even harder than now because instead of trying to fight off terminators, their units would be constantly blind and wiped by nuclear pineapples.

the real takeaway from this thread is that they changed the way they did vet between vanilla and WFA and this generally made the later armies have better scaling. cons are a great example of this; they were fixed by slapping a massive received acc modified on their vet 3.

I don't really see it?

Summed up vet bonuses for accuracy, cooldown, received accuracy.

Grenadiers: +40% accuracy, -20% cooldown, -23% received accuracy

Volksgrenadiers: -20% received accuracy, +60% accuracy -30% cooldown, -30% reload

Conscripts: 40% accuracy, -20% cooldown, -40% received accuracy,

Riflemen: -43% received accuracy, -20% cooldown, +30% accuracy,

Tommies -33% received accuracy, +40% accuracy, -20% cooldown




So from the basic infantry, we can see that germans get roughly -20% received accuracy while allies get around -40%. All infantry get -20% cooldown and bonus accuracy. However, the axis infantry benefit more from cooldown reduction and accuracy bonuses and tend to have higher damage per model than the allies in the late game. The germans also have more scatter, which means that missed shots can still hit other models. (i.e model A is aimed at, shot misses and hits model B)

I think you're too focused on the received accuracy bonuses, honestly.

conscript, tommies, and the rifleman are basically immune to bullets at vet3. This make a big difference. There is also very little difference in dps between the garand or the grenadier k98. In fact the garand is better at close range.

The only reason why the grenadier seems to get better offensive bonus is because of the lmg42. The main reason why the rifleman fell behind the grenadier was because the Bar was a piece of crap. Their veterancy bonus was perfectly fine.

the real takeaway from this thread is that they changed the way they did vet between vanilla and WFA and this generally made the later armies have better scaling. cons are a great example of this; they were fixed by slapping a massive received acc modified on their vet 3.

the rifleman veterancy was almost identical to the grenadier veterancy until recently. Buffing the rifleman's veterancy was an attempt to help the rifleman scale better but the veterancy was not the main issue. The main issue with rifleman's scaling was due to the weakness of the BAR and the weakness of the Pack howitzer until recently.

Could someone explain to me what is Recieved Accuracy? I never had a good explanation from the description.

Is it the chance that the unit/model will take a hit?

It is the multiplier that accuracy gets multiplied with when calculating if it hits. More than 1 means it's easier to hit, less is harder. Only applies to small arms.

It is the multiplier that accuracy gets multiplied with when calculating if it hits. More than 1 means it's easier to hit, less is harder. Only applies to small arms.

Technically, it applies to everything, but only really has an effect for small arms against infantry or AT weapons against vehicles in practice as larger weapons have such a low chance to hit against infantry that they largely depend almost entirely on their rounds' AoE scattering to their intended targets anyway while small arms' accuracy multiplied against vehicles' target sizes are always guaranteed to hit.

how about a comparison against combined arms?

It is the multiplier that accuracy gets multiplied with when calculating if it hits. More than 1 means it's easier to hit, less is harder. Only applies to small arms.

Ah, it's a accuracy multiplier. Thanks.

Nerf thread spam plz

how about a comparison against combined arms?

LOLLLLLLLLL best thread ever

Sure. Make riflemen cost 240 MP 24 MP reinforce and nerf their veterancy bonuses and then we can call it even yeah?

All Seems to be working as intended. Anything Axis with good vet must be unattainable or easily wipe-able.

how about a comparison against combined arms?

USF combined arms just means combine more LMG's to more Riflemen with smoke.

UKF ^^ without smoke just add snipers and tanks.