Login

russian armor

Riflemen Vet breaks balance (with comparisons)

16 Nov 2015, 12:20 PM
#61
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

Can't you people just accept that this game will never be balanced and will remain shit for the rest of its life span?


CoH3 FTW?
16 Nov 2015, 12:22 PM
#62
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Put it back at 240 MP, the special bullets should be ready faster, and if I'm going to have it as backbone of my army, it should better have a nice setup and deploy buff. I'd be very weary of having my mainline unit having to be stationary to fire.


I'm not quite sure if you understand what backbone of the army means.

Because to me, you seem to firmly believe its mainline infantry and for some unknown to me reason, you believe it should be always cheap.
16 Nov 2015, 12:23 PM
#63
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2015, 12:22 PMKatitof


I'm not quite sure if you understand what backbone of the army means.

Because to me, you seem to firmly believe its mainline infantry and for some unknown to me reason, you believe it should be always cheap.


Sorry, I was trying to be ironic.

EDIT: and got excited :p
16 Nov 2015, 12:30 PM
#64
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

......


And I want say "sorry", i realy apology from my reaction.

I love this game soo much.
16 Nov 2015, 14:12 PM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Sorry, I was trying to be ironic.

EDIT: and got excited :p

Not enough bartons to empathize irony :snfBarton::snfBarton::snfBarton:

These lil emotes are the only things that allows us to tell apart fanboy from someone sane at times :foreveralone:
16 Nov 2015, 17:18 PM
#66
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2015, 14:12 PMKatitof

Not enough bartons to empathize irony :snfBarton::snfBarton::snfBarton:

These lil emotes are the only things that allows us to tell apart fanboy from someone sane at times :foreveralone:


;)

I wish I were a fanboy, at least I'd try a little harder to win. Right now, it's just "ah, garden it" and I turn on Skyrim.
16 Nov 2015, 17:35 PM
#67
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Jesus Christ guys, USF can only build Riflemen while Wehrmacht give you an option to build T0 MG-42 and Grens. Combined Arms is they key in winning engagements.
16 Nov 2015, 18:49 PM
#68
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

Jesus Christ guys, USF can only build Riflemen while Wehrmacht give you an option to build T0 MG-42 and Grens. Combined Arms is they key in winning engagements.


That has nothing to do with insane vet bonuses which are not a factor earlygame.Immortal riflemen.
16 Nov 2015, 19:11 PM
#69
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Jesus Christ guys, USF can only build Riflemen while Wehrmacht give you an option to build T0 MG-42 and Grens. Combined Arms is they key in winning engagements.


And does USF really need much else in the early game for the first 3-4 minutes except maybe a T1 mortar which could be added? You can also got another RE for even more capping which really helps USF rush out their tech. Rifles keep the enemy contained while your RE do all the capping. Besides the topic is about Riflemen Vet 3, not the early game.

It's easy to say "Use combined arms" but that's not the problem. And I really don't buy the idea of "It costs more so it should get better veterancy then X unit". No, each unit should have its veterancy made specifically for it that allows the unit to scale and be better at its intended role. Said veterancy should also not break things. Everyone remembers terminator Volks and how much hate they got. That should show no infantry unit, especially base infantry unit, should be near invulnerable to small-arms, especially when they have 5+ men. I'd honestly modify Ober vet to be a little less ridiculous at vet 4+ to be honest as that's how insane they are. Conscripts can get away with being hard to kill as they don't have much firepower and instead rely utility and being meatshields.

The main issue here with Riflemen is how high their received accuracy is and probably Rifle Company as it makes for a very stupidly durable flamethrower squad which is a big no-no, though that's a different topic.

Here's what Rifles get for survivability:

(0.97 Base x 0.77 vet 2) x 0.8 vet 3 = 0.5975 (round up?)

Hopefully got the calculations right, but that is pretty high for a base unit with good firepower. I would tone it down a tad more to maybe 10-15%. Or we could find more interesting options like reinforce cost, ability cost or other thing locked into their vet.
16 Nov 2015, 20:03 PM
#70
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


Hopefully got the calculations right, but that is pretty high for a base unit with good firepower. I would tone it down a tad more to maybe 10-15%. Or we could find more interesting options like reinforce cost, ability cost or other thing locked into their vet.

why does the rifleman need a better received accuracy bonus from veterancy? it's the same bonus the grenadier have.

the problem previously was that the grenadier's veterancy accuracy bonus was too high. the grenadier's accuracy bonus should have been nerf to 30% to put it in line with the rifleman, instead of buffing the rifleman's received accuracy bonus and turn them into terminators. This would have also serve to replace the conscript's veterancy buff as well.

and the USF doesn't need a t0 mortar either. They already have the pack howitzer as artillery. Giving them a mortar would just be redundant.

It's amazing how much different a decent artillery actually make for the USF. instead of always relying on "smoke and flank", the USF now have the option of just shelling the wehr into oblivion. Remember that the wehr is especially weak to artillery due to their smaller squad size.
16 Nov 2015, 20:22 PM
#71
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Jesus Christ guys, USF can only build Riflemen while Wehrmacht give you an option to build T0 MG-42 and Grens. Combined Arms is they key in winning engagements.


Jesus Christ guys, USF rapes Ost and OKW. Combined arms do shit, grens getting raped by the best infantry, getting the MG-42s smoked by the cheapest smoke. Best light vehicles shut axis down.

OKW's combined arm. LOL.

Katitof, I'm not sure what breaking the balance means. Oh, wait, you're a fanboy, nvm.
16 Nov 2015, 20:31 PM
#72
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Riflemen vet broke my computer, plz Relic compensate me :snfPeter:
16 Nov 2015, 20:35 PM
#73
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1



Jesus Christ guys, USF rapes Ost and OKW. Combined arms do shit, grens getting raped by the best infantry, getting the MG-42s smoked by the cheapest smoke. Best light vehicles shut axis down.

OKW's combined arm. LOL.

Katitof, I'm not sure what breaking the balance means. Oh, wait, you're a fanboy, nvm.


I think all non fanbois agree the game is unbalanced right now. You are arguing with kaitof, you know hes going to be pro allies.

USF is OP - the game is becoming boring. Relic has a lot of work to do.

Personally, the OKW vs USF matchup is blowing my mind, wtf was relic thinking.
16 Nov 2015, 20:44 PM
#74
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

So what do you guys suggest then? Scaling back Riflemen's current buffs will leave us with the same problem as before. Riflemen need some sort of adjustment where the USF player is not floating fuel while lacking man power late game.
16 Nov 2015, 20:57 PM
#75
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

So what do you guys suggest then? Scaling back Riflemen's current buffs will leave us with the same problem as before. Riflemen need some sort of adjustment where the USF player is not floating fuel while lacking man power late game.


revert the rifleman and conscript's terminator veterancy and nerf the grenadier's accuracy bonus to match rifleman's.

and nerf the Tommies' veterancy as well.

here's something I made:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Inz2WPHDuwpHQx8KJHTy4Uw-6vuRZgYQzmHUv_0xNv0/edit
16 Nov 2015, 21:02 PM
#76
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



revert the rifleman and conscript's terminator veterancy and nerf the grenadier's accuracy bonus to match rifleman's.

and nerf the Tommies' veterancy as well.

here's something I made:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Inz2WPHDuwpHQx8KJHTy4Uw-6vuRZgYQzmHUv_0xNv0/edit


I'm not sure why you want to nerf conscripts, sure they are more survivable than they were but they are still pretty crap at doing dps, don't scale all that well offensively, have no lmg be it core or from a doctrine and the only weapon upgrade they do have cripples long to mid range dps while still having to pay mp and fuel for their upgrades to keep them being semi useful in the late game.
16 Nov 2015, 21:07 PM
#77
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



I'm not sure why you want to nerf conscripts, sure they are more survivable than they were but they are still pretty crap at doing dps, don't scale all that well offensively, have no lmg be it core or from a doctrine and the only weapon upgrade they do have cripples long to mid range dps while still having to pay mp and fuel for their upgrades to keep them being semi useful in the late game.


first, no one use flare mine, so might as well replace it with something useful.

"something useful" in this case means a free weapon upgrade. Tommies get two "elite lee enfield" at vet 3 and I think the conscript should get something similar to help with their awful dps.

The conscript are trading in their flare mine and the recent durability buff for more DPS in the form of two free weapon upgrade. That nerf to the weapon accuracy bonus is to bring it in line with the other line infantry. The elite mosin nagants are going to be more beneficial anyway.
16 Nov 2015, 21:19 PM
#78
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



first, no one use flare mine, so might as well replace it with something useful.

"something useful" in this case means a free weapon upgrade. Tommies get two "elite lee enfield" at vet 3 and I think the conscript should get something similar to help with their awful dps.

Pretty sure that's just visual and it's really just +40% accuracy and -20% cooldown at vet 3, regardless of what the men are holding, like the sum of Scripts' offensive benefits from vet.
16 Nov 2015, 21:26 PM
#79
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2015, 21:19 PMVuther

Pretty sure that's just visual and it's really just +40% accuracy and -20% cooldown at vet 3, regardless of what the men are holding, like the sum of Scripts' offensive benefits from vet.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0

the scoped lee enfield from vet3 are better than the lee enfield rest of the squad are using. Yes, this mean the tommies get more of a boost in firepower than just the +40% acc and -20% cooldown.
16 Nov 2015, 21:33 PM
#80
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=0

the scoped lee enfield from vet3 are better than the lee enfield rest of the squad are using. Yes, this mean the tommies get more of a boost in firepower than just the +40% acc and -20% cooldown.

Thank you very much.
4 users are browsing this thread: 4 guests

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

714 users are online: 2 members and 712 guests
Rosbone, 8kbetvlive
2 posts in the last 24h
10 posts in the last week
29 posts in the last month
Registered members: 50033
Welcome our newest member, 8kbetvlive
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM