Rework Assault Grenadiers

rework them to be axis shock troops will fill the gap for much needed elite infy for whermact...??

The problem with raising their CP is that it kind of destroys any sort of diversity and uniqueness that the Mechanized tree offers. I think the concept that Agrens can be used as either a main force or a complimentary makes the commander interesting and fun.

Meaty shields would mirror Shocks too much IMHO. I kind don't wanna see them as spamable PGren or Gren replacement either.

Assault Grens should be surgical assault units, as the name already suggests.
Kinda like units you want to field to get rid of important weapon teams, that stop your (mechanized) assaults with this doctrine.

So i'd go in this direction:
buff the sprint ability, make it cost more, but give it a decent reduced incoming accuracy while active - they get in fast and take less losses, but can't stay in combat for long, and won't replace any other infantry for usually prolonged fights. Replace the grenade with something like Volks incendiary - again to move them in quick & dirty, with the need for a fast out.
A possible STG upgrade, with the Battle Phase 1 or 2 upgrade, doesn't sound too bad either.

just my 2 cents.

So i'd go in this direction:
buff the sprint ability, make it cost more, but give it a decent reduced incoming accuracy while active - they get in fast and take less losses, but can't stay in combat for long, and won't replace any other infantry for usually prolonged fights. Replace the grenade with something like Volks incendiary - again to move them in quick & dirty, with the need for a fast out.
A possible STG upgrade, with the Battle Phase 1 or 2 upgrade, doesn't sound too bad either.

just my 2 cents.

Thats a nice idea, other thing they could do is to buff their weapon stats a bit, but delay their appearance by a few CP´s, so they are actually "Strong" when they hit the field a bit later

just give them an off and on cloaking ability. like falls and small increase their reinforcement cost to discourage spam

They can rush forward and dominate at close range. They're fine.

Until they are up in Close range they already lost 2 Models and are cripled

Assault Grens are really good early game and on some maps, but late game, the usefulness window gets narrower.

Well, you don't want to charge with tme straing through open field.

First, let enemy focus fire on Pios for example, then charge.
Hide behind corner
etc...

I find them very, very useful through entre game, not only 1-2mins but they need babysitting.

I rather keep them at 0CP and give them cloak + hold fire.

I think they are fine early-early game when they come out, and I wouldn't want them pushed back in cps stopping this. I think that they should rework their veterancy so they actually scale into late game. They need something at vet1 to keep up; I'd say -15% received accuracy and the sprint buff OP talked about. Compounded with the rest of the veterancy they get they will become much stronger.

Couldn't they just get smoke as a starting ability? That seems to be a simple remedy to getting murdered while closing in. If the smoke nade cost was sufficient enough it would prevent people just spamming them/ getting shrecks/ LMGs. Could be alright as an interim change without changing too many of their stats all at once

Until they are up in Close range they already lost 2 Models and are cripled

They're supposed to be unstoppable? What? They're a close range stepping stone towards panzergrenadiers. They're meant for flanking, not blinding rushing at conscripts, riflemen or infantry sections.

If I were to "rework" them I guess the only thing I'd do is add flammenwerfer as upgrade, so at least when assaulting they don't need to rely on a pionier squad to do some more assaulting.

The MP44 upgrade might be nice, even if it limits Panzergrenadiers. But think of it this way- PGs come with MP44s but are not ideal spammers, plus their main use is anti-tank infantry role, which the Assault Grenadiers can never replace. With MP44s AGs would only really become uber close range infantry, something which thy should do if their main role is replace pioniers in the close range role. Grenadiers and PGs will remain useful and relevant by holding their own distinct roles.

The MP44 upgrade could be identical to Stormtroopers' and have the special ability unlocked, and could also just replace four models' weapons rather than all five. It could also take up one/ two weapon slots so that the uni becomes less versatile as they cannot pick up weapons lying around.

You can even add both flamer and MP44 upgrade but the unit has to choose one or the other, and brings in a munitions dilemma that you might not want to commit as the game progresses into armour and such, but at least with the flamer option they replace only pioniers in attacking things like UKF emplacements. In fact the few times I play with this doctrine I pretty much use them to pick up flamers and replace my pioniers, who go around repairing vehicles. Panzer/ Grenadiers I reserve to picking up things like LMG or AT weapons. As a large short-ranged infantry unit with no long-range capabilities, Assault Grenadiers are actually ideal for using flamers due to higher DPS at close range, Sprint ability and large squad size.

On top of all this, they are only found in one doctrine, too, so we're not talking spam all across Ostheer commanders.

They're supposed to be unstoppable? What? They're a close range stepping stone towards panzergrenadiers. They're meant for flanking, not blinding rushing at conscripts, riflemen or infantry sections.

No that was not what I said. Even when you land a good flank, you will be crippled earlier than the squad you are facing (except for stray weapon crews). If those are guarded you will take heavy losses without doing that much

Assault Grenadiers with flamers would just be a copy of the Penal Battalion ( Hhhmm they would actually beat Penals in a 1vs1 due to having more DPS )

No that was not what I said. Even when you land a good flank, you will be crippled earlier than the squad you are facing (except for stray weapon crews). If those are guarded you will take heavy losses without doing that much

This is clearly untrue. Solo squads beat infantry sections and conscripts at close range and 2 squads beat rifle infantry.

This is clearly untrue. Solo squads beat infantry sections and conscripts at close range and 2 squads beat rifle infantry.

I agree with Moped - being forced to advance into an IS is going to cost at least 1 model their life with the amount of damage those rifles do. IS will beat assgrens almost any day.

And of course 2 squads of assgrens will beat a rifle squad - it's 2v1!

I tried my old Agren strat. Wow how these guys have fallen. I guess when they were made to fight cons you can clearly see the differences.

As Zero and Moped said, you can't advance because of instant model loss. By the time you get close it's far too late. If you do get off a good flank they will either focus fire them or just fallback the squad you are about to shoot at, accomplishing nothing.

I migth be a noob, bu;

I often find mself using the docrine against the British.

With HMG42 in 0, an ass grens i can skip t1 and go straigth for T2. Furthermore a pioneer+Instant assualtgren will make me able to cap some point very early on, with a HMG42 coming to defend the territory claimed.
Furthermore they are very dedly against brit inf up close.

I then go straith for T2, and replace with Pgrens as main infantry.

The rest of th gae is used to T2 stall, untill tiger. At is done by Pgrens and Pak, while medium armor is coming from offmap stug.

The fuel saved not teching will allow for tiger at the minute i have the CP to call it.

An for this purpose i thin they are fine.

A simple buff to MP40 is enough I think. They have 5 men, they have sprint and they come fast. Move them to 1 CP and buff the damage of MP40, both range and accuracy.

Currently the name "Ass Grens" suits them, they should literally move up to enemy's ass, sit, and unload their bullets in their buttocks to do decent damage.

You should lose if you charge them straight on. They're available right from the start so having them just sweep aside any infantry by just charging them would be Op.