Ostheer (Wehrmacht) Grenadiers
12 Nov 2015, 06:59 AM
#1
Posts: 148
Why not have the option for grenadiers to upgrade to 5 infantry like Brits? Currently a grenadier vs a rifleman is just no contest.
Thanks
12 Nov 2015, 07:10 AM
#2
Posts: 1653
+1 would give them the survivability they desperatly need
12 Nov 2015, 07:25 AM
#3
Posts: 403
Yes because 5 man grenadier squads for 240 mp will solve absolutely every problem
Grens are cheap and cost effective, and that's not good enough?
Grens are cheap and cost effective, and that's not good enough?
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
12 Nov 2015, 07:40 AM
#4
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
How about not to break balance between Grens and Cons (and other infantry), and just tune rifleman down?
Also - LMG42 on 5-man 240 MP squad
EDIT: on the other side we have double LMGs for USF
Also - LMG42 on 5-man 240 MP squad
EDIT: on the other side we have double LMGs for USF
12 Nov 2015, 07:46 AM
#5
10 
Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3
Who the fuck said they should still cost 240 MP with 5 Men?
12 Nov 2015, 08:06 AM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Why not have the option for grenadiers to upgrade to 5 infantry like Brits? Currently a grenadier vs a rifleman is just no contest.
Thanks
And bump their cost to 280?
Because cheap unit standing up to expensive one on similar weapon profile sounds imbalanced.
Plus, it would completely destroy any balance dynamic vs soviets, unless you want to give them stock weapon upgrades as well.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Nov 2015, 08:23 AM
#7
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
How about not to break balance between Grens and Cons (and other infantry), and just tune rifleman down?
Also - LMG42 on 5-man 240 MP squad
EDIT: on the other side we have double LMGs for USF
and double LMG for Brits too
12 Nov 2015, 08:50 AM
#8
Posts: 1930
just revert the terminator buff on the vet 3 rifleman. Both okw and Wehr stand helpless against them
12 Nov 2015, 09:01 AM
#9
Posts: 271
USF infantry is dominating without a doubt. More often than not, you can run up to Volk that is standing behind green cover, and still win the engagement fairly easily.
Nerf USF infantry, or buff axis infantry in some way. They are honestly a little too strong at the moment. 1v1, 2v2, Axis is suffering.
Nerf USF infantry, or buff axis infantry in some way. They are honestly a little too strong at the moment. 1v1, 2v2, Axis is suffering.
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12 Nov 2015, 09:09 AM
#10
Posts: 59
I think one of the biggest changes possible would be to give frontline infantry the ability to upgrade from 4 to 5 units and bring them in line with every other faction.
Since Brit release, brit fanboys have been complaining about how expensive it is to reinforce their squads - but Ostheer are STILL at 30mp per gren but have no opportunity to increase squad sizes. So now Infantry sections outperform grens on many levels and reinforce cheaper, maybe Osther should benefit from this as well?
I would propose a fuel gated squad size increase in the T2 building similar in cost to the Brit version, increasing infantry (but not weapon teams) to 5 men. This should allow Ostheer infantry to be more survivable as a squad and scale better into the late game.
I think a nice feature would be to include an unlockable rally point at the command bunker. As it stands, most other factions (except Soviets) have a forward retreat point. The resource cost should be somewhat costly, and would make protecting your investment in a command bunker a priority.
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12 Nov 2015, 09:13 AM
#11
Posts: 721
no one listened to me when i said bar buff was just enough but they said m biased
12 Nov 2015, 09:24 AM
#12
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
I see many complaints about "terminator buff at vet 3", but does Rifles become a problem for Wehrmacht only once they reach vet 3?
IMO there is a problem on some other layer that is missing in this kind of discussions.
Maybe it is absence of strong light vehicles for Wehrmacht (remember Stug E meta?)
IMO there is a problem on some other layer that is missing in this kind of discussions.
Maybe it is absence of strong light vehicles for Wehrmacht (remember Stug E meta?)
12 Nov 2015, 09:26 AM
#13
Posts: 254
Ostheer issues regarding infantry could probably already be solved by introducing a non-doctrinal forward retreat point. 4 man squads mean the unit is suffering even more under the omnipresent RNG. With a forward retreat point, retreating would not be that much of an issue for Wehrmacht and one could probably handle the cheap Gren squads more reliably.
Tune down Rifles as well pls and switch some of their utility to the call-in infantry, for example smoke.
I don't seem to get the issue here, Volks cost 235 MP, have an AI grenade and the ability to get a single special AT weapon for munitions. Plus, they have 5 veterancy levels. Why can't Grens get 5 models for 240 MP, have an AT ability and, you know, the ability to get a single special AI weapon for munitions?
Tune down Rifles as well pls and switch some of their utility to the call-in infantry, for example smoke.
Yes because 5 man grenadier squads for 240 mp will solve absolutely every problem
Grens are cheap and cost effective, and that's not good enough?
I don't seem to get the issue here, Volks cost 235 MP, have an AI grenade and the ability to get a single special AT weapon for munitions. Plus, they have 5 veterancy levels. Why can't Grens get 5 models for 240 MP, have an AT ability and, you know, the ability to get a single special AI weapon for munitions?
12 Nov 2015, 09:27 AM
#14
Posts: 1930
I see many complaints about "terminator buff at vet 3", but does Rifles become a problem for Wehrmacht only once they reach vet 3?
IMO there is a problem on some other layer that is missing in this kind of discussions.
Maybe it is absence of strong light vehicles for Wehrmacht (remember Stug E meta?)
usual experience as axis against USF:
0-6 min: fight back against ~4 rifleman and captain, sort of even
6-13 min: get your rear rekt by stuart as you tried to fight back against light tank with only infantry and atg.
13-19: rifleman reach terminator status and/or sherman arrive. rear completely devastated.
12 Nov 2015, 09:28 AM
#15
Posts: 830
Hm yes and no. I can still gren blob my way to victory vs soviets and UKF though.
12 Nov 2015, 09:35 AM
#16
2 Posts: 1108
usual experience as axis against USF:
0-6 min: fight back against ~4 rifleman and captain, sort of even
6-13 min: get your rear rekt by stuart as you tried to fight back against light tank with only infantry and atg.
13-19: rifleman reach terminator status and/or sherman arrive. rear completely devastated.
hahaha yeah
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12 Nov 2015, 10:05 AM
#17
Posts: 403
Who the fuck said they should still cost 240 MP with 5 Men?
Who the fuck said otherwise?
I don't seem to get the issue here, Volks cost 235 MP, have an AI grenade and the ability to get a single special AT weapon for munitions. Plus, they have 5 veterancy levels. Why can't Grens get 5 models for 240 MP, have an AT ability and, you know, the ability to get a single special AI weapon for munitions?
Grens get everything you said. Without a doctrine nor separate upgrade research.
5 man grens for 240 mp with the same stats per model? Yeah sure, that would surely make ost builds more diverse. WELCOME TO THE NEW META, WHERE GRENS ARE THE NEW OSTTRUPPEN EXCEPT THEY KILL INFANTRY EVEN FASTER
People comparing rifle lmg to gren mg 42 are the same people who compare e8 and t34-85 to stock p4.
You know, a commander should give you something better. Let's not forget a m1919 is 70 ammo and has barely better stats than the gren mg42, if not worse.
If you expect to win vs riflemen just by making grens and ignoring the best hmg in the game that you can build in t0, I have bad news for you. INB4 HE JUST USES SMOKE AND MY MG42 IS USELESS BabyRage
Maybe build the stock ostheer squad that rapes infantry in close range and keep them close to your mg42 that are being smoked, maybe actually move your team weapons so they are in a good position, maybe get more supression platforms, maybe stop making 1 unit and blame everything on that 1 unit.
If there is 1 unit ost has that needs a buff, it's pgrens and it is incredibly minimal.
Med kits could also be looked at
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
12 Nov 2015, 11:13 AM
#18
Posts: 509
The answer is in nerfing USF and UKF infantry which are both too strong atm. Going down the buff axis infantry route will require extra work: axis-soviet balance will also need tuning.
Why do the job in 3 steps if we can do it in 2?
I do support a change to pz-grens and grens from 4 man to 5 man (actually i say make all axis 5 man and all allies 6 man) but i want their stats and costs to be as they are (except rifles and IS which are punching above their cost). This change i propose to make them less vulnerable to explosives and reduce rng effects.
Why do the job in 3 steps if we can do it in 2?
I do support a change to pz-grens and grens from 4 man to 5 man (actually i say make all axis 5 man and all allies 6 man) but i want their stats and costs to be as they are (except rifles and IS which are punching above their cost). This change i propose to make them less vulnerable to explosives and reduce rng effects.
12 Nov 2015, 12:19 PM
#19
Posts: 1220
USF finally do something now, people got used to that USF has always been weak l2p thread
12 Nov 2015, 12:30 PM
#20
Posts: 509
USF finally do something now, people got used to that USF has always been weak l2p thread
Erm no. USF was a strong faction in 1v1 for quite some time. USF has been weak in 3v3+ but the game takes its balance direction from 1v1. If you check the 1v1 win rates USF is leading head and shoulders above everyone else. Clearly it is OP right now in the 1v1 context.
And even more to the point: those win rates are of the top 150 players. So it's clearly not a l2p issue.
We all have our favourite but dont let bias blind you good man.
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