Contending with USF infantry as Ostheer

This is 2v2 based play.

I don't want to get into any balance discussions regarding this, there may be an issue at the moment with balance but it's not what I am trying to achieve from making this thread.

I want to know what Ostheer players are doing to contend with USF infantry, and what works and what doesn't.

I have tried the following:

2 x MG's and 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that they just smoke the MG's and Grens even with LMG do not compete. I had two Vet 3 MG's in one game but they also use the Captain ability that breaks supression.

2 x Flame Pios, 3 x Grens with LMG - They just don't compete with BAR Rifles, flamers get focused down and Grens are outclassed and bleed MP.

2 x Snipers, 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that the snipers fire too slow and constantly get bum rushed and forced away, causing a loss of map presence.

3 x Stormtroopers with MP44 and 3 x Grens - Although these guys are quite good, they come after two CP and cost 100 mun each. Plus they also get outnumbered and overwhelmed by rifles.

There is no consistent answer to USF infantry witch is why COH2 is on fire in any mode that isn't 4v4

anyway if you want to pony up 2.99 for the Ostruppen commander and support Lelics balance team, there is a thread in Ost strategy with people reporting some success.

Theoritically with anything that has to do with USF try double sniper with panzergreniders with panzershericks following them around to deter Stuarts.

In practice wait for the next patch.

Numbers are the answer. Whenever I get beat beat as USF it's because the opposing player kept up numbers in the early game to compete. That extra manpower advantage is there to help ostheer compete with USF.

something like this:

gren>MG>MG>gren>gren>gren>tech up

or

MG>pio>MG>MG>T2>Pgren>Pgren>Pgren

So basically:

1. Use the numbers advantage early on to your benefit
2. Don't let MGs sit alone protecting areas, your infantry NEEDS them to support them or they will lose
3. Don't send out units alone, they will beat you in 1v1 battles
4. Don't leave your units in the same place after an engagement, they will remember where it is and they will flank it
5. Layer your defenses, they will smoke individual MGs
6. Be prepared to pull back, even if they use a lot of smoke it's worthless if you just pull back and make them start the assault again from the start
7. Don't charge open ground with your Pgrens, flank or use smoke
8. Don't let them take the buildings!
9. Lone pgrens are useless, 2 or more together at all times

To sum it up, you basically have to keep your units together and your defenses active and ready to move back. USF is really good at keeping their assaults moving, and will likely be able to push through any single line of defenses they meet. But if keep moving and drain their infantry as they attack they bleed quickly. Then you just counterattack when they are weak.

If you are able to hold off 2 assaults back to back early on, they just won't be able to keep up manpower wise. Letting you expand your defense and close them in.

This is 2v2 based play.

I don't want to get into any balance discussions regarding this, there may be an issue at the moment with balance but it's not what I am trying to achieve from making this thread.

I want to know what Ostheer players are doing to contend with USF infantry, and what works and what doesn't.

I have tried the following:

2 x MG's and 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that they just smoke the MG's and Grens even with LMG do not compete. I had two Vet 3 MG's in one game but they also use the Captain ability that breaks supression.

2 x Flame Pios, 3 x Grens with LMG - They just don't compete with BAR Rifles, flamers get focused down and Grens are outclassed and bleed MP.

2 x Snipers, 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that the snipers fire too slow and constantly get bum rushed and forced away, causing a loss of map presence.

3 x Stormtroopers with MP44 and 3 x Grens - Although these guys are quite good, they come after two CP and cost 100 mun each. Plus they also get outnumbered and overwhelmed by rifles.

2 vs 2 only - mg,mg,pio .tech up.1 pio stays on frontline and the 2 mgs mutual supporting.(plants teller,later flamer)
222.pzgren.pzgren.pzgren.Pak.Tech up.
Stug-stug if fuel parity or less or pz4-pz4 if fuel superiority.
Stall for tiger.

Spam tellers and s-mines throughout game -0nly munition sink.

Grens don't cut it anymore vs usf.Too weak dmg without upgrade,too weak survivability throughout and shit veterancy.

2 vs 2 only - mg,mg,pio .tech up.1 pio stays on frontline and the 2 mgs mutual supporting.(plants teller,later flamer)
222.pzgren.pzgren.pzgren.Pak.Tech up.
Stug-stug if fuel parity or less or pz4-pz4 if fuel superiority.
Stall for tiger.

Spam tellers and s-mines throughout game -0nly munition sink.

Grens don't cut it anymore vs usf.Too weak dmg without upgrade,too weak survivability throughout and shit veterancy.

skipping t1 really worked for me last few 2v2 games. but i go 3 mgs because you will float 1k+ manpower when you need to wait for 40 fuel to tech and 20 to build t2

skipping t1 really worked for me last few 2v2 games. but i go 3 mgs because you will float 1k+ manpower when you need to wait for 40 fuel to tech and 20 to build t2

You can use mechanized assault in that case.Get one less mg but one assgren right off the bat.3 mgs is a bit overkill usually.Still have tiger option at end.

Doesn't MG spam come with big downsides?

Like:

1. Lacking enough capping power;
2. Being blinded by smoke grenades and flanked (smoke and flank )
3. The danger of being flanked and invaded by USF player's soviet or british partner with light T1 vehicles such as M3s and UCs?

I'm asking 'cause I see such builds do not involve T1 and grenadiers...

This is 2v2 based play.

I don't want to get into any balance discussions regarding this, there may be an issue at the moment with balance but it's not what I am trying to achieve from making this thread.

I want to know what Ostheer players are doing to contend with USF infantry, and what works and what doesn't.

I have tried the following:

2 x MG's and 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that they just smoke the MG's and Grens even with LMG do not compete. I had two Vet 3 MG's in one game but they also use the Captain ability that breaks supression.

2 x Flame Pios, 3 x Grens with LMG - They just don't compete with BAR Rifles, flamers get focused down and Grens are outclassed and bleed MP.

2 x Snipers, 3 x Grens with LMG - I find that the snipers fire too slow and constantly get bum rushed and forced away, causing a loss of map presence.

3 x Stormtroopers with MP44 and 3 x Grens - Although these guys are quite good, they come after two CP and cost 100 mun each. Plus they also get outnumbered and overwhelmed by rifles.

Did you eva tried to blob back ? !!!
Greens can exally competate withe rifels hoo how can it be blob vs blob

X4 greens all togther at early game if its a 2v2 blob all ur blob together and there is no allice force thet can win you long rang

Did you eva tried to blob back ? !!!
Greens can exally competate withe rifels hoo how can it be blob vs blob

Is this the case in present days? Don't think so. USF blob > Wehrmacht blob...

Edit: didn't see it was only for 2vs2

Doesn't MG spam come with big downsides?

Like:

1. Lacking enough capping power;
2. Being blinded by smoke grenades and flanked (smoke and flank ibHyena
3. The danger of being flanked and invaded by USF player's soviet or british partner with light T1 vehicles such as M3s and UCs?

I'm asking 'cause I see such builds do not involve T1 and grenadiers...

2 mg42s is not spam.
Capping power is not a concern in 2 vs 2.
By the time smoke or upgraded bren arrives usually u are very close to 222 or have it out.Also ur first 50 muni goes into teller.M3 is hardly built these days.

Main thing is to avoid failgrens with high reinforce and poor combat capability,shit surrvival for pzgrens which atleast can keep up in veterancy bonuses.Against 1919 blobs even they will struggle,but rifle flamers can get a good shock if faced with multiple pzgrens.

2 mg42s is not spam.
Capping power is not a concern in 2 vs 2.
By the time smoke or upgraded bren arrives usually u are very close to 222 or have it out.Also ur first 50 muni goes into teller.M3 is hardly built these days.

Main thing is to avoid failgrens with high reinforce and poor combat capability,shit surrvival for pzgrens which atleast can keep up in veterancy bonuses.Against 1919 blobs even they will struggle,but rifle flamers can get a good shock if faced with multiple pzgrens.

Yes in 2v2s me and my partner are avoiding grens...

Did you eva tried to blob back ? !!!
Greens can exally competate withe rifels hoo how can it be blob vs blob

X4 greens all togther at early game if its a 2v2 blob all ur blob together and there is no allice force thet can win you long rang

Grenadiers can't fight riflemen blobs.Not early,not lategame.They can't fight flamers,can't fight 1919.LMG grens can fight normal BAR,but once they get high vetted they are invulnerable.
Another thing is gresn are poor at meeting engagements due to long range strength and no firing on the move.Pzgrens are far better at mobile operations.

Doesn't MG spam come with big downsides?

Like:

1. Lacking enough capping power;
2. Being blinded by smoke grenades and flanked (smoke and flank )
3. The danger of being flanked and invaded by USF player's soviet or british partner with light T1 vehicles such as M3s and UCs?

I'm asking 'cause I see such builds do not involve T1 and grenadiers...

on big maps i start with a extra pio. capping power is not that big of a deal in 2v2, rush the pio to the resource points and cap the connection points with mg. didnt had problem with smoke yet when you properly micro 3 mgs and pull them back and let each other cover. t1 start from suv is a problem but you have a mate in 2v2 too who should cover your mgs in this case. if you manage to get out 222 the suv player is kinda fucked with his t1 start (222 counters the m3 and sniper).

only thing which really sucks if there is a brit player with sniper, can nullify your 222 pretty well..

Grenadiers can't fight riflemen blobs.Not early,not lategame.They can't fight flamers,can't fight 1919.LMG grens can fight normal BAR,but once they get high vetted they are invulnerable.
Another thing is gresn are poor at meeting engagements due to long range strength and no firing on the move.Pzgrens are far better at mobile operations.

i am talking about early game ...
4 greens can do the job realy great who wins long range ?
if rifles will try to figt long range they will lose
If they come close and you have 4 greens shooting at the same rifels they wont survive until geting closer

Then you get 222 thet conters m20 then flame truck thet gets vet 3 and rapes

Get ur op armore and gg ...

Is this the case in present days? Don't think so. USF blob > Wehrmacht blob...

rifels with flame are op i know
2 howzers of usf are op all ather is weak usf without flames +howzers is shit


If you guys wanna nerf usf early game (rifelman) usf will be really weak

Some one have a solution? Nerf rifelman what then ?

Maybe move rifles to t2 or t3 buf rear echelon so rifles wont come early game ?

So at the start we will get rear echo and only efter rifles ?

rifels with flame are op i know
2 howzers of usf are op all ather is weak usf without flames +howzers is shit


If you guys wanna nerf usf early game (rifelman) usf will be really weak

Some one have a solution? Nerf rifelman what then ?

Maybe move rifles to t2 or t3 buf rear echelon so rifles wont come early game ?

So at the start we will get rear echo and only efter rifles ?

Nobody said anything about nerfing riflemen. In fact, I don't want any nerfs for them. I just want grenadiers stop sucking. That's all, actualy.

Dont forget this game is probably 90% micro/ macro + positioning skills.That is if you control units faster and better, you mostly will always beat ur opponent. No matter what you build.

Its cool to talk about build orders vs certain strats etc. But I miss discussions about Hotkeys/ way of control/ positioning in certain maps. Wich is imo 10x more important.

So do you use ALL hotkeys? (super important using snipers) Do you use tac map? Control groups?

Get ur op armore and gg ...

He is talking about Ost, dumbass. Look at the 2v2 stats of USF and Ost and get the fuck out of here.

You really need to make use of S-Minefields. It works good when the USF player need to walk behind a building/hedge/wall where he has no line of sight hence he cant see the obvious shields marking the field (lelic pls).

He is talking about Ost, dumbass. Look at the 2v2 stats of USF and Ost and get the fuck out of here.

You really need to make use of S-Minefields. It works good when the USF player need to walk behind a building/hedge/wall where he has no line of sight hence he cant see the obvious shields marking the field (lelic pls).

i never understood the sign of the sminefield. every allied mine can oneshoot a full hp squad but sminefield needs a visible sign otherwise your squad can be wiped if he walks in there for 2-3 seconds