King Tiger

Thread readers, I have updated my proposal with some changes and reword ed it for better clarity. The core ideas remain as they were. Post 50. Please peruse at your pleasure

Imo the kt needs a offensive buff...you know okw sacrifices os much and builds all these trucks to get a ultimate end game unit...and player are expecting here to just cake walk it with m10 spam,td kiting,vairous abilites and offmap....but talk about kt buff nope
every one just freaks about but hey its cool to have insaley op churchill and talk about isu 152 buff to previous state sometimes people confuse word normal with op
solution:
Limit to one per game
increase the main gun damage from 240 to 320
slight increase in aoe and its damage ( because of the new squad spacing its not effective as before)
speahead:no one uses well because no on gets to this veterancy but still it sucks change the cone from 90 to 180 degree
vet 4:increased armor
vet 5 bonus changed from -30 to -50% reload
-50 % vet requirement

a little anecdote about the KT from few days ago. Brand new KT rolls on the front. It's not unsupported. It's got PAK43 behind it and infantry all around. Rifleblob approaches, obviously reveals it. 2 Firefly shots and double tulips from the FOW frontally destroy it in less than 3 seconds. And that was about it from my ultimate area denial/all possible fuel invested of a Hi-end unit. In all transparency KT was about 95% Healthwise since it got scratched by and AT when tryin' to scare of Maxim that prevented my infantry to move ahead.

p.s. It was pretty safely reversed after that first AT shot. But I was all invested to try to stop the rifleblob with my (all vetted) Sturmoficier, 2 volks, G43 Fusiliers AND Obers, which also failed, but that's another story I guess..

a little anecdote about the KT from few days ago. Brand new KT rolls on the front. It's not unsupported. It's got PAK43 behind it and infantry all around. Rifleblob approaches, obviously reveals it. 2 Firefly shots and double tulips from the FOW frontally destroy it in less than 3 seconds. And that was about it from my ultimate area denial/all possible fuel invested of a Hi-end unit. In all transparency KT was about 95% Healthwise since it got scratched by and AT when tryin' to scare of Maxim that prevented my infantry to move ahead.

and that is not an issue with the VI B, that is the design issue with the firefly.

Firefly 2x useful than KT, mmmmm k. Can solo it with one P4 but mmmm k. KT requires support, like every other heavy. Pershing without support, dead, IS2 dead.

*cough* Churchill *cough* can steamroll your entire defense line and still get out from there alive, yeah, surely it needs some support....

...but it's 'kay, because Churchill was a far better tank in real life than King Tiger. Oh, wait!

*cough* Churchill *cough* can steamroll your entire defense line and still get out from there alive, yeah, surely it needs some support....

...but it's 'kay, because Churchill was a far better tank in real life than King Tiger. Oh, wait!

churchill is more expensive when you calculate "the weakness of britz" penalty. you know they are so weak they cant hold map at all

and that is not an issue with the VI B, that is the design issue with the firefly.

I'd say it's the issue with the VI B also, since when a dedicated slow reloading tank destroyer as FF with load of ammo finishes of a PzIV, it's acceptable I'd say, but when "1/3" of your army, and all of the fuel you ever saved vanishes in seconds without the mere possibility to react, then it's the issue with the actual unit that costs that much also.

In my opinion, KT should've deflected at least half of that volley of death. So if the british player is gonna spend all that ammo to try to suckerpunch KT sort of Heavy (frontally) from the safe distance, then he/she should be prepared to waste some amount of that investment to rng.

on more serious note, I agree that KT needs offensive buffs asap. And not for free, but from the Vet or customization. First of it's vet requirements should be lowered for at least 15-30% overall 'case of right now it's vet "5" system is just a gimmick.

On vet 2 KT should get two additional ammo based customizations unlocked and player could choose one of the two, to specialize the tank in one direction. Just a suggestion but it could be engine upgrades to improve it's agility which it lacks so much, OR the old (frontal) armor value in form of zimmerite coating or something of equivalent to make sense of the deflects. On such a high value unit, I think majority of players willing to invest in it would appreciate some customization possibility. Spearhead, which I'm still not sure what exactly it does, besides additional sight and turret rotation speeds should get that 50 range, a range that all it's natural enemy's have, Pershing and Comet (less armored but significantly faster don't forget) etc.

as a counterbalance, KT should be limited to one on the field as all other Heavy's, and it's rear armor should be lowered so it rewards more tactical approaches to destroying it.

for those that say that KT is ultimate area denial tool, which it obviously isn't, being able to be scared off by all kinds of threats from the FOW - I'll repeat - don't forget that it's almost 1/3 of your army and usually 70-100% of your generated fuel clumped up in one extremely slow unit that can eventually guard 1 point of the map !??

Su-76 penetrating KT frontal armor is what tells you something is wrong.After tulip and bombing runs KT just waay too easily destroyed.

People keep saying support.NEWSFLASH - Most expensive tank in the game for the most satrved faction the game.You won't be able to get JP4 along with it most of the time due to cost,and also KT alone 26 fucking pop.
Second NEWSFLASH -Raketen range 50.Allied tank destroyers can kite from 60.Thus Raketen can't be used like pak is used to support wehr tiger to help vs tank destroyers.

Give KT 100 range, 640 damage because fighting jacksons,su85, and slow ass expensive firefly+tulip with a JP fucking 4 AKA the best TD in the fucking game that solos all of those at vet 0 is too much effort. Not to mention it al fucking ready out ranges most mediums and can reach out and slap a Jackson on most maps even with its paltry 45 range.

Give KT 1000 front Armor because TOP 3 highest armor value in the game is NOT ENOUGH ARMOR.

Also, make KT main gun have twice the AOE, and one shot squads and AT guns even more so than it does currently.

But it will still be slow and underpowered!

@ostherlitz

222 penetrates IS-2 frontally.
Please go make a thread about IS-2 being underpowered because of it.

And KT being most expensive doesn't mean it should steamroll over every unit in game, its hardcounters including.

But it will still be slow and underpowered!

@ostherlitz

222 penetrates IS-2 frontally.
Please go make a thread about IS-2 being underpowered because of it.

And KT being most expensive doesn't mean it should steamroll over every unit in game, its hardcounters including.

ye i alawys build 4 222s to counter is2 ( why 4? because 222+ is2)

@ostherlitz

222 penetrates IS-2 frontally.
Please go make a thread about IS-2 being underpowered because of it.

And KT being most expensive doesn't mean it should steamroll over every unit in game, its hardcounters including.

@Commissar Katitof,
At what range and what % of chance that happens....almost no chance i would say.Su-76 can do it much more often..and at ranges where KT can't shoot back.Compare the pent. numbers.

No one's asking for steamroll,but su-76 shouldn't be able to penetrate its armor except at point blank,tulips shouldn't 2 shot KTs and its far too slow to avoid bombing runs.

@Commissar Katitof,
At what range and what % of chance that happens....almost no chance i would say.

Over 10% at any range, because 222 don't have pen dropoff at range.
10,7% to be precise.
You have fuel cost difference being what? 15 times greater?

Su-76 can do it much more often..and at ranges where KT can't shoot back.Compare the pent. numbers.

Sure it does.
Its a tank destroyer using ZiS-3 gun and having ZiS-3 penetration.

You're asking for tank to be immune to tank destroyer.

No one's asking for steamroll,but su-76 shouldn't be able to penetrate its armor except at point blank,tulips shouldn't 2 shot KTs and its far too slow to avoid bombing runs.

Again, you're asking for a tank to be pretty much immune to tank destroyer.
Should IS-2 be too vs stugs which couldn't even scratch its paint job with its guns?

And please, show me what math gods guided you to believe that 4x240=1280.

JagdTiger is fast enough to avoid bombing runs, KT doesn't have problems with them, unless you try to do it when you see the plane on top of it.

Over 10% at any range, because 222 don't have pen dropoff at range.
10,7% to be precise.

35 / 375 = 9.33%

And KT being most expensive doesn't mean it should steamroll over every unit in game, its hardcounters including.

Actually it does. At that investment it really should steamroll every other single unit. Unless countered by a good combo of units, which allies don't lack - shoot it with dedicated TD's from FOW couple of times, then snare it with base infantry and finish it off by air, arty, medium swarm whatever.. there are countless options, believe me I know, since I lost sooo damn many.

And for your enlightment - KT should NOT have "hardcounters", only counters. It's even in it's description for God's sake ... "weak to Massed AT weapons" but that description is a lil' obsolete I guess.. since "massed" as of right now means more than 1 lol

Over 10% at any range, because 222 don't have pen dropoff at range.
10,7% to be precise.
You have fuel cost difference being what? 15 times greater?


Sure it does.
Its a tank destroyer using ZiS-3 gun and having ZiS-3 penetration.

You're asking for tank to be immune to tank destroyer.


Again, you're asking for a tank to be pretty much immune to tank destroyer.
Should IS-2 be too vs stugs which couldn't even scratch its paint job with its guns?

And please, show me what math gods guided you to believe that 4x240=1280.

JagdTiger is fast enough to avoid bombing runs, KT doesn't have problems with them, unless you try to do it when you see the plane on top of it.

and compared to the su76 vs kt and 222 vs is2 the 222 has the nice bonus of outranging the is2 which makes it really easy to counter it with 222. aw wait i did something wrong there can you help me?

banna stop plz just take a look who you are arguing against its katiof
katiof gonna katiof
one topic :relic plz make kt 290 fuel let it fire even slower somehow m able to stop m10s and t70s by just passing right in front of it un damaged...

35 / 375 = 9.33%

My mistake, was convinced it was still at 40.

Sure it does.
Its a tank destroyer using ZiS-3 gun and having ZiS-3 penetration.

You have to agree that SU-76 is too good for its cost though. There's no incentive to build SU-85 at all when you can just sit on SU-76s (which are also way easier to vet up). SU-76 should be a medium tank destroyer and SU-85 the heavy tank destroyer.

You have to agree that SU-76 is too good for its cost though. There's no incentive to build SU-85 at all when you can just sit on SU-76s (which are also way easier to vet up). SU-76 should be a medium tank destroyer and SU-85 the heavy tank destroyer.

I'd say that is the problem of SU-85, which got "penal battalion" disease, where cheaper unit does exactly the same what it can do. Medicority of SU-85 in comparison to any other T3 level TD is the problem, StuG is cheap, JP4 have awesome scaling and durability, firefly have alpha strike, Jackson have mobility and reliability and SU-85 is just tad more dmg, tad more durability SU-76 with low mobility.

All TDs got updated and SU-85, just like penals in comparison to cons, lags behind because there is something that arrives earlier and does the same thing.

Its not that SU-76 is too strong.
SU-85 and penals are simply outdated, don't bring anything more to the table then their cheaper alternatives, arrive later and have less utility.

Just like nerfing cons all of sudden won't make penals more appealing, changing SU-76 won't make SU-85 more desirable.

KT is still a tank.

Both SUs are tank destroyers.

Tank destroyers damage and kill tanks.