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Why OKW has resource penalties - Justification?

6 Nov 2015, 21:57 PM
#21
avatar of Plaguer

Posts: 498



I know, that is why I made the argument that salvaging won't do anything for you. But then again Dullahan never made any sense in any of the posts he made.


With the post me made he ment that for OKW salvaging and resource transfer is a huge part of fine okw gameplay, which is a thing that A LOT of players seem to forget to take advantage off, salvaging and resource transfer is the key point to okw success, and have been for a long time

I kinda got a wrong idea from your post anyways :P
6 Nov 2015, 22:54 PM
#22
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384



Neither the vaunted conversion or salvage(both of which are joke tbh) will stop the allied blob horde of doom from overrunning you.


Use kubel wagons properly. Salvage your dead kubels and any scout cars they send your way.



You won't. It can't stop rifle hordes, let alone with flamers.

Apart from that, what am I supposed to salvage if my opponent makes nothing but riflemen with bars and bazookas or flamethrowers? The dead or scorched bodies of my meatshield volksgrenadiers?


Kubelwagons often force your opponent to spend resources on tech they otherwise wouldn't. Soviets can panic build scout cars or AT grenades, Brits can build a bren carrier, USF may pick mech doctrine or rush for an M20.

So salvage their light vehicles, or your own dead kubels. (Although they really shouldn't be dying to such things.)

By the time he has flamers you should have a Luchs/oversoldaten. I go mech --> Panzer --> battlegroup, only using mech to convert resources as needed until my panzer command is up. This lets me get a Luchs on the field at around the same time as a T70. Wreaks absolute havoc on USF because they are so very rarely prepared for light vehicles.

I had replays but last nights patch made them disappear. I'm going to get some more and breakdown what I do.
7 Nov 2015, 02:35 AM
#23
avatar of gnaggnoyil

Posts: 65



Use kubel wagons properly.


Vet 3 riflemen can directly shoot MG42 to death, let alone a creepy kubelwagen.



Salvage your dead kubels and any scout cars they send your way.


Salvage takes time which is important in early game while get only 5 fuel. Furthermore, you usually can only get wrecks on the frontline, which is dangerous for salvaging.
7 Nov 2015, 03:15 AM
#24
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Kubelwagons often force your opponent to spend resources on tech they otherwise wouldn't. Soviets can panic build scout cars or AT grenades, Brits can build a bren carrier, USF may pick mech doctrine or rush for an M20.

So salvage their light vehicles, or your own dead kubels. (Although they really shouldn't be dying to such things.)

By the time he has flamers you should have a Luchs/oversoldaten. I go mech --> Panzer --> battlegroup, only using mech to convert resources as needed until my panzer command is up. This lets me get a Luchs on the field at around the same time as a T70. Wreaks absolute havoc on USF because they are so very rarely prepared for light vehicles.

Kubel is useful only on certain maps. And any decent player can work around it by using green cover/garrison. It's not an MG42, so it won't do as much damage. You don't have to panic retreat if you are suppressed.

I sense that you think mech is the way to go as OKW. I'm sure if that would be the case, we would had seen more of it during OCF or from any of the other top players.

Going mech > Flak HQ on 1v1 puts you way behind on the attrition war and makes your fight sloppy as you can't fight back at 100% health. This would be feasible if Sturm vet1 medkit was improved or reworked.

If you wreck a USF player with a P2, then they are doing something horrible wrong. Either they get a Cpt and a Stuart (which hardcounters your P2) or they should had either tech major/Cpt if they had gone for M20 play.
Most people skip major if they don't have a big edge on you to pull out a Sherman before they are punished by no AT.
7 Nov 2015, 03:59 AM
#25
avatar of kitekaze

Posts: 378

Wanted to make a formal thread regarding this core argument .
Taking the whole point of this faction as stated by relic -
Crippling resource penalties compensated by very powerful units and vet 5.But is this reality anymore?

Where are the very powerful units of release - Ober,KT,stuka,sturmoffizer,sturmpio -All toned down or nerfed into relative non-use.

2nd point -Veterancy.Vet4 and 5 -much rare in competitive games except on cheapest volks(which have shit vet bonuses due to nerf).So another marginal feature.

So what is currently the excuse for these brutal penalties?
Does the original premise even apply anymore?


Next time, please make clear poll. After "Yes", don't put negative sentence. It made me vote incorrectly:(.

Yeah, OKW need change. Relic is on their way to redesign them. That's information in last stream. Please wait until after they finish.
7 Nov 2015, 05:11 AM
#26
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

just buff the specialist for fuck sakes how many time i have to say this....and adjust the vet requirement for each indvidual unit carefullt and the vet bonus itself so atleast it is as good as ukf who vet so quick its ridiculous
7 Nov 2015, 08:36 AM
#27
avatar of $nuffy

Posts: 129

Vet system is the first thing that should be looked at. Especially for the so called elite units - 1K hours invested mostly in OKW, and never seen vet 5 Obers (in balanced match-up), and only a few times vet 5 KT - and that's proly 'cause I (ab)use triple 10% vet up bulletin - which is sad. Not to mention there's no new bulletins for the Obers or KT, beside those that were included from the start. It only proves that OKW was released - then nerfed - and then forgotten. KT should get it's old frontal armor back in the form of vet 2 bonus, (as Panthers do) since it's usually a lone vehicle you can afford late game, (Especially if your tier 4 got rekt by not being in the base) and it's so susceptible to all kinds of flanks or gets pushed back so easily by any of longer ranged at.

p.s. Does anyone really know what exactly "Spearhead" ability does ?
7 Nov 2015, 08:53 AM
#28
avatar of Leepriest

Posts: 179

The problem with OKW is their Vet, alot of requirements are just ludicrous. They need to be reduced some by 10% -50%, to get on paar with other factions. Now they have to work alot harder to get to vet 3 out of five, than other factions! Thats just proposterous imo.
With this they would fit their intended role as an elite and few units.



7 Nov 2015, 08:59 AM
#29
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

Wait, 68% of voters want the resource penalty changed or removed. But then 38% of voters want buffed OKW units? Wtf :foreveralone:

Logic would dictate that the resource penalty should be removed entirely, and that OKW should only have three levels of vet and adjusted costs/tech costs to compensate for the change. That makes the most sense and would make less players feel cheated by.

A change like that is highly unlikely to happen though sadly.
7 Nov 2015, 09:01 AM
#30
avatar of bingo12345

Posts: 304

powerful tech truck(repair, reinforcement, heal), super fast tech tree, vet 5 for penalty.
7 Nov 2015, 10:02 AM
#31
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Some vet bonuses also need to be adjusted for OKW. It´s not only that the vet is unreachable but also bad, leading the whole concept of vet5 ad absurdum. Soviet vet is also bad and needs to be looked at. But their whole concept isn´t designed around having less stuff with the justification of having good vet.

What is the point of vet5 on a King Tiger that effectively offers worse bonuses than vet3 on the regular Tiger?

Tiger B 'Königstiger'
1) Unlocks the 'Combat Blitz' ability
2) 20% scatter, +40% weapon rotation speed, +20% accuracy
3) Unlocks the 'Spearhead' ability
4) 45.8% sight range, +30% ac/de-celeration
5) 30% reload

Tiger I
1) Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
2) +5 range, +20% accuracy, -20% scatter
3) -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration
7 Nov 2015, 10:10 AM
#32
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271

I think they volks need some love, they vet need some love. We all need love, who wants a hug?
7 Nov 2015, 10:23 AM
#33
avatar of Leepriest

Posts: 179

Volks dont need love(basic combat and great AT support),just 3/4 of the OKW army needs to be reduced requirements in vet.
7 Nov 2015, 10:24 AM
#34
avatar of AngryKitten465

Posts: 473

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2015, 10:10 AMJewdo
I think they volks need some love, they vet need some love. We all need love, who wants a hug?


I could use a hug :foreveralone:
7 Nov 2015, 10:39 AM
#35
avatar of Jewdo

Posts: 271



I could use a hug :foreveralone:


*Hugs them OKW players*
7 Nov 2015, 10:42 AM
#36
avatar of AngryKitten465

Posts: 473

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2015, 10:39 AMJewdo


*Hugs them OKW players*


*smiles and appreciates dem hugs*
7 Nov 2015, 11:18 AM
#37
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

It feels more like USF needing a nerf to teching costs / weapon upgrades and increasing cp cost for infantry callins for soviets rather than okw needing a buff. Currently it feels like okw struggles because of the insane timings that allies have regarding light vehicles / elite infantry presence.
7 Nov 2015, 13:36 PM
#38
avatar of $nuffy

Posts: 129



What is the point of vet5 on a King Tiger that effectively offers worse bonuses than vet3 on the regular Tiger?

Tiger B 'Königstiger'
1) Unlocks the 'Combat Blitz' ability
2) 20% scatter, +40% weapon rotation speed, +20% accuracy
3) Unlocks the 'Spearhead' ability
4) 45.8% sight range, +30% ac/de-celeration
5) 30% reload

Tiger I
1) Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability
2) +5 range, +20% accuracy, -20% scatter
3) -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration


EXACTLY !

Yet, how much XP does it need to get to that mediocre Level 5 !?? ..upon everything we're talking about a unit, that not only comes very late or never at the sacrifice of all other available vehicles ... :loco:
7 Nov 2015, 15:18 PM
#39
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

The vet 5 is just for show mostly.Not only are bonuses often bad,requirements are horrendous.When king tiger armor was reduced its gun range needed to be increased to 50.
7 Nov 2015, 15:32 PM
#40
avatar of TAKTCOM

Posts: 275 | Subs: 1

Why OKW has resource penalties?

Because 5 vet, best tech options and KT like ordinary unit.
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