ISU-152 feels really weak

I like using the Guards+mark target+ISU commander when playing as soviet. Generally speaking this unit performs well at AT at max range,it can outrange all the armors except the JT and the pen(230) is good eough,40 more than SU85.

Maybe it could use a slight buff of accuracy vs infantry at max range, but just a slight buff, nobody want the old ISU which slaughters everything back.

The Penetration is horrible and here is why:

ISU pen drop: (260/230/200)
SU-85: (200/190/180)

Overall it's better to go for an SU-85 than for an ISU.
The ISU can't fire while driving. The SU can.
The ISU has less mobility. The SU has more. (turn time being very important in that case)
SU-85 can't be used against Ele and JT but you can simply switch to use other means such as IS-2, or T34/85 tanks. If you go ISU and the enemy goes Ele, its gg in lategame.

Let's assume we are fighting a stationary KT with ISU and SU on long range. Here is the average dmg for each ISU shell and the average dmg for the SU-85 compared to the ISU. (reload for one ISU shell*dmg*chance of pen)

ISU: 1*240*0.53 = 127.2 dmg
SU: 2.5*160*0.48 = 192 dmg

~50% more dmg for SU

Now with veterancy (SU with vet3 is quite common in a good match, ISU at vet2 is not unrealistic but takes very long):

ISU: 127.2*1.3 = 165.36 dmg
SU: 192*1.3*1.2 = 299.52 dmg

~81% more dmg for SU

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And a accuracy buff against infantry? A gun that wipes paks and weapon teams in an insant, no thx.

Sweep/mortar/arty/bomb/nade the mines

roll in with your bazooka blob / AT gun blob / M10 / T34-85 horde, mark target. done.

Mind providing a video/replay for such a case? Because, the whole point of planting mines and baiting with an Elefant supported by 222 is to counter M10 and T34 rush. Bazooka blobs can't act because they get countered by AI infantry (which can not be countered by vehicles because Ele) and a AT gun wall gets ripped apart by Stukas, Mortars, ISGs and Panzerwerfer.

And your idea of taking care of those mines ....

so things should be underperforming because it was imbalanced previously? wow sounds logical

No, they need to stay underperforming because when viable they encourage an obnoxious play style. Thanks for deliberately misreading me, though.

I bet you haven't seen Jagdtiger in a 1v1 game for a long time as well. Not every unit is made for 1v1, I know people wish they were, but some are really made for team games. ISU is a good point guard. Have some Engies near a point to sight for the ISU and watch as the Gren blobs approach and your ISU starts sniping squads.

I agree with your points, yet I feel that the ISU just misses to often. The only upside is that when it hits, it usually wipes something. Oh contrairé mon amis, I have seen a Jagdtiger in a 1v1 not so long ago, in a OCF matchup mind you!

And your idea of taking care of those mines ....

M3 with sweepers inside

No, they need to stay underperforming because when viable they encourage an obnoxious play style. Thanks for deliberately misreading me, though.

so you are in favor of an imbalance game.

Typical allied thread.

It already instagibs squads, but it isnt ALSO AS GOOD AS THE JADGTIGER BOO HOO. I want it to pen every time!!111

Typical allied thread.

It already instagibs squads, but it isnt ALSO AS GOOD AS THE JADGTIGER BOO HOO. I want it to pen every time!!111

make it 1-shot any axis tank

Increasing AT potential are welcomed even if it would mean lower AI abilities.

make it 1-shot any axis tank

Even when it doesn't penetrate.

REALISTIC!

Typical allied thread.

It already instagibs squads, but it isnt ALSO AS GOOD AS THE JADGTIGER BOO HOO. I want it to pen every time!!111

lol like you ever used the ISU-152 in AT mode

After they removed selfspotting (it was really great change) they should have decreased fuel cost by 10 fuel and manpower by 40 MP.

I think it is great on some maps.
In langres i killed with it endless okw squads and later on by attack ground i killed even allmighty JP4.

M3 with sweepers inside

We are talking about minefields which are placed right next to the Elefant and covered my MGs. Don't forget, that the 222 with scopes will spot any incoming threat miles ahead.

The best thing of the ISU is the versatility it provides, only being matched by the Americans. The HE shell that blows apart squads and doubly so if grouped together is also good for wiping out four man squads as well. Only issue is that it does hit terrain from time to time, hopefully it gets the same treatment as the OKW HEAT rounds. On the note of the AP round, it isn't too shabby either with being able to penetrate (hitting at 240 damage!) everything but the heaviest vehicles. A Panther at max range will be penetrated with a 62% chance. In my case penetrating twice out of thrice for 480 damage isn't bad at all. Works quite with a pair of cheap SU-76s due to that 240 damage offsetting the 120 damage of the SU-76s.

Able to engage soft and hard targets can't be done by any other Tank Destroyer besides a ability here and there. (Excluding the M10 considering it is of questionable balance with that crush) Mind that it does this at 70 range. Use it at range and you will have time to switch shells for the appropriate threats. The self spot was a blow but of little concern considering the good amount of flares Soviets posses. Mortars and Snipers work excellently for this, even camouflage for the Sniper for some behind the line reconnaissances.

On its own the ISU can seem slightly weak but in a combined arms approach it is amazing.

used it some more. it's fine but unlike most heavies it needs support to prevent it from getting rushed and circled. certainly a very strong tank.

if you're fighting mostly infantry, leave it on HE; if you're fighting mostly tanks, leave it on AP. HE will do some crew stuns against tanks and a lot of damage to infantry (when it hits) and AP will do a lot of damage to tanks and occasionally wipe infantry squads (less often then HE but still enough to be noticeable, particularly if the infantry are close to the tank).

also, SU-85s are pretty much the optimal support unit as they can spot for it and they help with tank rushes.

And a accuracy buff against infantry? A gun that wipes paks and weapon teams in an insant, no thx.

But the ISU has 70 range, 10 more than the SU85. The SU85 has 0 AI. And you have medium tanks which support the ISU.

I feel its accuracy against infantry at max range is underperforming now so I said it could use a slight buff.

But the ISU has 70 range, 10 more than the SU85. The SU85 has 0 AI. And you have medium tanks which support the ISU.

I feel its accuracy against infantry at max range is underperforming now so I said it could use a slight buff.

Only sucks when the ISU is shooting from low ground. This is a universal issue with all explosive shells. But ISU firing from high ground wipes squads with ease.

And you have medium tanks which support the ISU.

You mean T-34-76? This things can't support themselves.

You mean T-34-76? This things can't support themselves.

I means Sherman/E8/Cromwell/T34-85 if it's a 2v2 game.