Hi there,
I have been having trouble with fighting the USF and Soviets as OKW. Vs the USF I just get overwhelmed by riflemen that seem to come from all sides. Vs the Soviets I simply can't seem to get around the maxim spam. This one game a guy made 4 maxims (I counted them in the replay) and he had 4 conscript squads with double zis guns and a mortar to back them up.
I would like advice on how to counter riflemen spam/blobs as OKW.
I would also like advice on how to counter maxim spam supported by a vast conscript army.
I have tried kubel rush, didn't succeed. I have tried AA HT rush, didn't really succeed either. I have tried jaeger light infantry squads supported by volksgrenadiers, sturmpioneers and a Panzer II luchs, also didn't really work. I am getting out of ideas..
Any help would be appreciated!
How do I OKW vs USF and Soviets?
4 Nov 2015, 18:47 PM
#1
Posts: 11
Permanently Banned
4 Nov 2015, 18:50 PM
#2
4
Posts: 474
First, what maps do you have vetoed? Because minsk pocket is a reallllyy bad place to fight against maxim spam(and by that I mean impossible with okw).
4 Nov 2015, 18:52 PM
#3
Posts: 11
Permanently BannedFirst, what maps do you have vetoed? Because minsk pocket is a reallllyy bad place to fight against maxim spam(and by that I mean impossible with okw).
Arnhem checkpoint
La Gleize Breakout
Kholodny Ferma summer
Minsk Pocket
I can't veto more maps, although I would like too.
4 Nov 2015, 19:09 PM
#4
4
Posts: 474
Arnhem checkpoint
La Gleize Breakout
Kholodny Ferma summer
Minsk Pocket
I can't veto more maps, although I would like too.
Right, first you need to know that the kubel is a conscious choice in knowing that after the 5-10 minutes; It will be a combat ineffective unit and you will sooner or later lose it when the light vehicle rush comes into play by USF/SOV players(m20/t70/quad).
Second, I recommend never going mechanized against USF. Soviets maybe, but most of the time you're better off just sticking to a battlegroup headquarters. Since any vehicle rush from mechanized means you're going "all in" and if that vehicle rush fails. You will be in a very bad spot because that fuel could have been spent on getting your second truck up or even your flak truck(t3) going.
Third, I know this is personal choice, but I recommend you having these three commanders in your loadout for 1v1s:
Luftwaffe is good for getting mg34s. If you are going to get mg34s, I recommend not getting a kubelwagen and saving the manpower for more volks, or when you hit 1 cp and just callin the mg34s to act as suppression platforms.
Pop falls when a sniper is next to a building, or a damagaed light vehicle is running away and it was nearby a shack which you can send falls out of and faust-kill/criple it with.
Never bother using valiant assault, it only gives sprint and 25% more accuracy so it's just meh for 100 munitions. Airborne assault is good since it calls in stukas to strafe a cp and a fall squad at the cost of 250 munitions.
Fusiliers are extremely good with g43s. Though when getting this commander, I advice not bothering to shreck up your volks since you need those munitions for your fusilier g43 upgrades, just get raketens in place of AT. I recommend this commander in case you see sniper heavy builds or anything that excels at killing 4 man squads or smaller. Since fusiliers have good durability coming at 6 men and are the units that usually make it out alive when you hit the retreat button.
Sturm offizier is good, just keep him behind your units for accuracy boost and don't let him get shot as when the officer dies, he will force his unit and those receiving his buffs to retreat.
The other abilities I do not recommend using because they are extremely risky unless you are level headed and know exactly how to use assault arty and jagdtiger. Breakthrough's a safe pick since its only 35 munitions and lets you neutralize territory faster.
In my opinion, this is the best 1v1 commander for OKW.
Thorough salvage is self explanatory.
When you get 2 cp's, start popping JLI squads from buildings where there is heavy fighting and if it has a lot of windows, keep them in there and let them shoot at enemies. They are less effective at killing snipers near buildings but they can get the job done if they get good RNG rolls with their own G43 sniper.
Later on, you can start spamming infiltration grenades at enemies and I recommend doing so as they force your enemy to micro and potentially take massive damage/wipes if he isn't looking when those grenades fly in.
Then you have a choice of either getting an ostwind or saving your fuel for something else. If you see heavy light vehicle/infantry play; ostwind is a good choice. If not; counter with what you think is better.
The arty barrage is good, it just depends on how much munitions you have for how good it really is. Just don't bother using it to kill artillery pieces unless you are at 400 munitions for guaranteed wipes on them.
I could say more, but most of it is just muscle memory and reflexes. Keep playing and you will know what counters what and what to do if your stuck in a certain predicament, or someone else can help you out with something I didn't cover.
4 Nov 2015, 19:41 PM
#6
Posts: 11
Permanently Banned
Right, first you need to know that the kubel is a conscious choice in knowing that after the 5-10 minutes; It will be a combat ineffective unit and you will sooner or later lose it when the light vehicle rush comes into play by USF/SOV players(m20/t70/quad).
Second, I recommend never going mechanized against USF. Soviets maybe, but most of the time you're better off just sticking to a battlegroup headquarters. Since any vehicle rush from mechanized means you're going "all in" and if that vehicle rush fails. You will be in a very bad spot because that fuel could have been spent on getting your second truck up or even your flak truck(t3) going.
Third, I know this is personal choice, but I recommend you having these three commanders in your loadout for 1v1s:
Luftwaffe is good for getting mg34s. If you are going to get mg34s, I recommend not getting a kubelwagen and saving the manpower for more volks, or when you hit 1 cp and just callin the mg34s to act as suppression platforms.
Pop falls when a sniper is next to a building, or a damagaed light vehicle is running away and it was nearby a shack which you can send falls out of and faust-kill/criple it with.
Never bother using valiant assault, it only gives sprint and 25% more accuracy so it's just meh for 100 munitions. Airborne assault is good since it calls in stukas to strafe a cp and a fall squad at the cost of 250 munitions.
Fusiliers are extremely good with g43s. Though when getting this commander, I advice not bothering to shreck up your volks since you need those munitions for your fusilier g43 upgrades, just get raketens in place of AT. I recommend this commander in case you see sniper heavy builds or anything that excels at killing 4 man squads or smaller. Since fusiliers have good durability coming at 6 men and are the units that usually make it out alive when you hit the retreat button.
Sturm offizier is good, just keep him behind your units for accuracy boost and don't let him get shot as when the officer dies, he will force his unit and those receiving his buffs to retreat.
The other abilities I do not recommend using because they are extremely risky unless you are level headed and know exactly how to use assault arty and jagdtiger. Breakthrough's a safe pick since its only 35 munitions and lets you neutralize territory faster.
In my opinion, this is the best 1v1 commander for OKW.
Thorough salvage is self explanatory.
When you get 2 cp's, start popping JLI squads from buildings where there is heavy fighting and if it has a lot of windows, keep them in there and let them shoot at enemies. They are less effective at killing snipers near buildings but they can get the job done if they get good RNG rolls with their own G43 sniper.
Later on, you can start spamming infiltration grenades at enemies and I recommend doing so as they force your enemy to micro and potentially take massive damage/wipes if he isn't looking when those grenades fly in.
Then you have a choice of either getting an ostwind or saving your fuel for something else. If you see heavy light vehicle/infantry play; ostwind is a good choice. If not; counter with what you think is better.
The arty barrage is good, it just depends on how much munitions you have for how good it really is. Just don't bother using it to kill artillery pieces unless you are at 400 munitions for guaranteed wipes on them.
I could say more, but most of it is just muscle memory and reflexes. Keep playing and you will know what counters what and what to do if your stuck in a certain predicament, or someone else can help you out with something I didn't cover.
Thank you!
5 Nov 2015, 00:19 AM
#7
Posts: 121
Hi Dutchy02. I can't see your playercard, but gauging from your post, the first advice I would offer is just play more of all sides to develop and insight into their respective strengths and weakness and just get a general handle on play.
More specifically here's how I read the matchups at this time.
First everything I say below I say pertinent to my experience in 1v1 automatch (and 2v2 AT automatch). It is also applicable in 2&3v etc, but other buffering factors come into play in multi-partnered matches.
OKW are a hard ask right now especially. Most saliently in 1v1 auto. My take? Just don't play them vs USF. In fact, until USF are nerfed, don't play Ostheer either. Just play USF instead and dominate.
Another poster was right about map vetoes. Minsk is akin to volunteering to lose for OKW in the particular.
USF rifle spam abetted by insta vet and 'nades is just BS. Unless you have reflexes of an 18 year old, are located in the US just a single hop away from Relic's battle server with a $4k PC so you can Übermicrododge their endless 'naderain, don't bother. Just play USF instead.
vs Soviets OKW are viable. Kind of. But the forces are still IMBA so player skillZ matched for player, balance still favours Soviets.
In 1v1 all OKW can do vs USF is counter-blob, which becomes increasingly ineffective once past opening and early game. By mid game you'd better have a new repertoire of tricks to play or you're done.
From this sentence I'll wager you're trying to tech too fast vs putting men on the ground in the field. OKW's Achilles' Heel to tech in 1v1 will be fuel, so don't. Use the MP rather than floating it to put lots of VGrs into the field. If he's spamming maxims, he'll have to have built T2 for them. That costs time, fuel, and MP, and while he is building for that, his engies aren't in the field. He can't build conscripts and Maxims both. He won't have the MP.
OKW can spam VGr just as hard as Sov can conscripts, even harder if he is building T2 to spam Maxims. Clearly you need to be more aggressive. VGr can outgun conscripts squad for squad, and rape them with numerical superiority. Why aren't you doing this?
Offensive patrolling.
Rather than capping, like PE with its shitty opening resource model in COH1 (½ US inf squad cap/decap rate), as OKW your primary objective is to deny your opponent resource and movement with by a strategy of denial of resource and position. Cut his maxims off en-route. Catch his conscripts 2:1 and gun them down using OKWs strong opening infantry advantage straight out of the gate, 5 man, with good punch at range and decent resilience. You will have Inf superiority until he can field Shocks, and Shocks are expensive both to initially field or reinforce. If you let Maxims set up and then walk into their narrow arc of fire to have to beat a retreat or die, well what needs be said. You need to play cleverer tactically next time. Watch what you are doing wrong and figure out how you can change what didn't work into what will work. Don't blob if he has mortars and MGs is a just common sense. Either flank or over-run. Try to capture and recrew his Maxims.
Never underestimate the MP and positional & capping advantage of causing the enemy to bleed opening game by inflicting expensive casualties or wiping out entire squad models while you don't. And there's a secondary psychological impact, especially upon newer and less experienced players.
Forget Kubels IMV. They can be useful in certain specific situations, but generally, they are a waste of MP unless the map favors a couple of restrictive choke points where you can prevent his egress from his base and so contain his forces to routing via one side of the map or keeping him from capturing a particular critical sector. e.g. fuel or cut-off, and so cut him off. Kubels need to be stationary for 3 secs before their MG will suppress and are so fragile they are easily lost repositioning unless you are a master of micro. As someone else has already said, they have a very narrow window of operational viability.
The first and most general principle of victory is superior numbers. In opening vs Sov, OKW can field this if he goes T2 for Maxims, and equalise it if he spams conscripts. Go VGr not SP, as the later are too expensive, only superior at close range, and even worse, fragile being only 4 man. I love it when some OKW idiot thinks he is going to rape me with his SPs only to cut them down with triagulated conscript squads firing from range from behind green cover as the cross open ground to assault up close. Even if supported by a squad of VGr either behind GC or trying to assault as well, that then leaves them still outgunned and subsequently forced to retreat. So the msg is you are better off IME&V with more of and cheaper VGr doing the same thing as conscripts than SPs. Go a 2nd SP later once you establish intial supremacy rather than trying the hammer approach with them early if you want to. But remember SP will be completely outclassed at close range the moment Shock Troops hit the field, and a waste even in opening if you can't close ground to kill early because you are suppressed by MGs. Better you have several VGr so you can simultaneously assault MG from several sides. If he already has cross covering MGs, you have merely been outplayed.
Sov shouldn't be getting such a force build up and can't in opening without you constantly taking heavy casualties and squad losses for MP bleed along with retreating frequently also offering him free territorial control. It sounds like you need to think outside the bigger blob and just get more time on the board generally to get a feel for what works or doesn't. It's unrealistic to expect to be winning before then. Compounding that, OKW is definitely a faction that requires finesse whilst it has little to finesse with IMO. I CBF with them as they are, and against USF, suffice to say I'd rather just chew off my own arm and club myself to death with it then endure that.
More specifically here's how I read the matchups at this time.
I have been having trouble with fighting the USF and Soviets as OKW.
First everything I say below I say pertinent to my experience in 1v1 automatch (and 2v2 AT automatch). It is also applicable in 2&3v etc, but other buffering factors come into play in multi-partnered matches.
OKW are a hard ask right now especially. Most saliently in 1v1 auto. My take? Just don't play them vs USF. In fact, until USF are nerfed, don't play Ostheer either. Just play USF instead and dominate.
Another poster was right about map vetoes. Minsk is akin to volunteering to lose for OKW in the particular.
USF rifle spam abetted by insta vet and 'nades is just BS. Unless you have reflexes of an 18 year old, are located in the US just a single hop away from Relic's battle server with a $4k PC so you can Übermicrododge their endless 'naderain, don't bother. Just play USF instead.
vs Soviets OKW are viable. Kind of. But the forces are still IMBA so player skillZ matched for player, balance still favours Soviets.
In 1v1 all OKW can do vs USF is counter-blob, which becomes increasingly ineffective once past opening and early game. By mid game you'd better have a new repertoire of tricks to play or you're done.
I would also like advice on how to counter maxim spam supported by a vast conscript army.
From this sentence I'll wager you're trying to tech too fast vs putting men on the ground in the field. OKW's Achilles' Heel to tech in 1v1 will be fuel, so don't. Use the MP rather than floating it to put lots of VGrs into the field. If he's spamming maxims, he'll have to have built T2 for them. That costs time, fuel, and MP, and while he is building for that, his engies aren't in the field. He can't build conscripts and Maxims both. He won't have the MP.
OKW can spam VGr just as hard as Sov can conscripts, even harder if he is building T2 to spam Maxims. Clearly you need to be more aggressive. VGr can outgun conscripts squad for squad, and rape them with numerical superiority. Why aren't you doing this?
Offensive patrolling.
Rather than capping, like PE with its shitty opening resource model in COH1 (½ US inf squad cap/decap rate), as OKW your primary objective is to deny your opponent resource and movement with by a strategy of denial of resource and position. Cut his maxims off en-route. Catch his conscripts 2:1 and gun them down using OKWs strong opening infantry advantage straight out of the gate, 5 man, with good punch at range and decent resilience. You will have Inf superiority until he can field Shocks, and Shocks are expensive both to initially field or reinforce. If you let Maxims set up and then walk into their narrow arc of fire to have to beat a retreat or die, well what needs be said. You need to play cleverer tactically next time. Watch what you are doing wrong and figure out how you can change what didn't work into what will work. Don't blob if he has mortars and MGs is a just common sense. Either flank or over-run. Try to capture and recrew his Maxims.
Never underestimate the MP and positional & capping advantage of causing the enemy to bleed opening game by inflicting expensive casualties or wiping out entire squad models while you don't. And there's a secondary psychological impact, especially upon newer and less experienced players.
Forget Kubels IMV. They can be useful in certain specific situations, but generally, they are a waste of MP unless the map favors a couple of restrictive choke points where you can prevent his egress from his base and so contain his forces to routing via one side of the map or keeping him from capturing a particular critical sector. e.g. fuel or cut-off, and so cut him off. Kubels need to be stationary for 3 secs before their MG will suppress and are so fragile they are easily lost repositioning unless you are a master of micro. As someone else has already said, they have a very narrow window of operational viability.
The first and most general principle of victory is superior numbers. In opening vs Sov, OKW can field this if he goes T2 for Maxims, and equalise it if he spams conscripts. Go VGr not SP, as the later are too expensive, only superior at close range, and even worse, fragile being only 4 man. I love it when some OKW idiot thinks he is going to rape me with his SPs only to cut them down with triagulated conscript squads firing from range from behind green cover as the cross open ground to assault up close. Even if supported by a squad of VGr either behind GC or trying to assault as well, that then leaves them still outgunned and subsequently forced to retreat. So the msg is you are better off IME&V with more of and cheaper VGr doing the same thing as conscripts than SPs. Go a 2nd SP later once you establish intial supremacy rather than trying the hammer approach with them early if you want to. But remember SP will be completely outclassed at close range the moment Shock Troops hit the field, and a waste even in opening if you can't close ground to kill early because you are suppressed by MGs. Better you have several VGr so you can simultaneously assault MG from several sides. If he already has cross covering MGs, you have merely been outplayed.
Sov shouldn't be getting such a force build up and can't in opening without you constantly taking heavy casualties and squad losses for MP bleed along with retreating frequently also offering him free territorial control. It sounds like you need to think outside the bigger blob and just get more time on the board generally to get a feel for what works or doesn't. It's unrealistic to expect to be winning before then. Compounding that, OKW is definitely a faction that requires finesse whilst it has little to finesse with IMO. I CBF with them as they are, and against USF, suffice to say I'd rather just chew off my own arm and club myself to death with it then endure that.
5 Nov 2015, 09:08 AM
#8
Posts: 11
Permanently Bannedvery good advice
Thank you so much for your advice! I will use it to my best abilities!
I have another question if I may ask, what to do about dshk spam? This guy had a total of 6 on the field at a certain point He then parked them near my cutoff and I couldn't get to it, tried to flank but one of em always got my squads. Then I made double LeIG to counter them, but they weren't that effective, especially when he put them in buildings. Tried to make a Ostwind and a stuka next, but because I was cutoff a lot, these came rather late. Then shermans started to roll up and I eventually lost my vet 5 puma because it got stuck on a sherman wreck
Dhsks can damage pumas, flack HTs and Panzer II luchs and are a pain in the ass to get out of buildings.
5 Nov 2015, 12:36 PM
#9
Posts: 19
from your screenshot alone: try not to build 4 sturmpioneers, they are expensive to reinforce. I get 1-2 sturmpioneers, 2 only on maps where i can set up nice short range ambushes. instead spam volks, i think someone already explained their use. other than that try to get into green cover and when the mg shoots at you, flank with a different volk and use the flame nade on buidlings. if you think you can afford it, get a stuka zu fuß, they are a great counter to supportweapons. not sure how doable that is in 1v1 though since you need your fuel for other things most of the time.
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