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Petition to give OKW a non-doctrinal MG

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5 Nov 2015, 03:58 AM
#101
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

You have kubel, ISG, and Flack. You have the best combined suppression in the game in my book. Just works in another way.

People saying the mg34 is crap never used the USF 50 that get's instant murdered by a rifle grenade because of the grouping of models.

Or the Russian version where if it get's flame naded, all the models flip out trying to play hot potato picking up the MG until they die.

Cry more please.

It's you that crying for defending Allies.

Plenty of people explained above why kubel doesn't replace ordinary MG's position.
Seriously, can you say that USF and Soviet do not need MG because they have light vehicle suppression platform?
USF even have pack howie, yet they have 50cal.

If you talk about flame nade and rifle nade, it's same on Axis MG teams.
Try to check conditions on each factions before you say other people crying.
5 Nov 2015, 04:03 AM
#102
avatar of KoufromMizuchi

Posts: 172

Signed.

With a side note though: it won't be good for OKW to have access on 2 supression platforms (one mobile, one static). Imagine for instance what will happen if we simply switch between kubel and mg34.
Mg34, being a stock unit, will be built almost every game. Chosing one doctrine with kubel, that would give you in eraly game 2 suppression platforms - one static, one mobile - that could give you a to important advantage.
Of course I am aware that you can do this today too, if choosing an MG34 doctrine, but the phenomenon will be so much spread if we make mg34 non doctrinal and just switch the 2 units between them.

So my side note is in fact: make Mg34 a stock unit - in hq or med truck (most appropriate in hq), make kuble doctrinal in luftwaffe and fortifications, BUT remove supression from kubel, give it ability to decap and cap territory and increase its DPS with a small margin to make it still viable in early infantry confrontations.

I think that making MG34 a stock unit would be the safest way to change OKW because this way we won't have to change volks AI performance.

+1
Nice and interesting way to change it. Totally agree on everything you said.
5 Nov 2015, 12:55 PM
#103
avatar of TAKTCOM

Posts: 275 | Subs: 1

What's next? Petition to give USSR a non-doctrinal LMG & hand AT-weapon? Or maybe give USF non-doctrinal mortars? Or elite infantry for wehrmacht? :facepalm:
5 Nov 2015, 15:09 PM
#104
avatar of _GarbageMan_

Posts: 83


It's you that crying for defending Allies.

Plenty of people explained above why kubel doesn't replace ordinary MG's position.
Seriously, can you say that USF and Soviet do not need MG because they have light vehicle suppression platform?
USF even have pack howie, yet they have 50cal.

If you talk about flame nade and rifle nade, it's same on Axis MG teams.
Try to check conditions on each factions before you say other people crying.


You must never play then. The AXIS mg's do not play hot potato when getting fire damaged like the russians, and no we do not have a rifle grenade that can shoot off and wipe an entire MG team before being suppressed like the USF's.

I believe the kubel it's a good substitute for the beginning, with flack translating into the mid. Ha if you want everything equal how about you give all the allies bases flack? Give us ISG's that can be spammed and instant pin ? (the howi can't be spammed without losing) Or allow our bases to move around and shoot flack?

Each faction has their advantages. OKW doctorine MG's is not one of them. If you wanted it, give us a dodge or a scout car that has the suppression of a kubel that can take 2-3 AT hits as well. Or a base flack base defenses.

You can't have everything. OKW is about combined arms suppression.
5 Nov 2015, 15:14 PM
#105
avatar of EugeneTheDestroyer

Posts: 43

you could even add mg39 to okw and still have a mg call in unit with mg42
5 Nov 2015, 15:22 PM
#106
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210



You must never play then. The AXIS mg's do not play hot potato when getting fire damaged like the russians, and no we do not have a rifle grenade that can shoot off and wipe an entire MG team before being suppressed like the USF's.

I believe the kubel it's a good substitute for the beginning, with flack translating into the mid. Ha if you want everything equal how about you give all the allies bases flack? Give us ISG's that can be spammed and instant pin ? (the howi can't be spammed without losing) Or allow our bases to move around and shoot flack?

Each faction has their advantages. OKW doctorine MG's is not one of them. If you wanted it, give us a dodge or a scout car that has the suppression of a kubel that can take 2-3 AT hits as well. Or a base flack base defenses.

You can't have everything. OKW is about combined arms suppression.


And giving USF a mortar squad would make them OP too right?
5 Nov 2015, 16:42 PM
#107
avatar of _GarbageMan_

Posts: 83



And giving USF a mortar squad would make them OP too right?


Never asked for one.
5 Nov 2015, 18:51 PM
#108
avatar of Azags
Donator 11

Posts: 1

How about make the mg34 like the KT, but instead of all 3 trucks you only need to set up one (same requirement as for grenades and schrecks iirc).
Change the mg34 ability in both doctrines to a mg42-upgrade with better dps and suppression (maybe with a little munition cost).
Keep the Kübel as fragile as it is but maybe increase damage and remove suppression.
Hat
5 Nov 2015, 18:56 PM
#109
avatar of Hat

Posts: 166


It's you that crying for defending Allies.

Plenty of people explained above why kubel doesn't replace ordinary MG's position.
Seriously, can you say that USF and Soviet do not need MG because they have light vehicle suppression platform?
USF even have pack howie, yet they have 50cal.

If you talk about flame nade and rifle nade, it's same on Axis MG teams.
Try to check conditions on each factions before you say other people crying.


You have forward bases, ISG and a shit ton of flak.

How can you complain about not having suppression? SU hardly has any AT infantry but no complaints from them.
5 Nov 2015, 19:09 PM
#110
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003


.... I don't care about balance ......


This is point, this topic.

Next topic will be "Give USF nuclear bomb"?
5 Nov 2015, 20:00 PM
#111
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

I'm kind of 50/50. It's pretty undeniable that OKW is severely lacking in 1v1. The question is why and what is the most appropriate/best for balance fit. Relic wants OKW to be good early game-aggressive faction: will a stock MG-34 fix that? I don't think so (although it would be a very nice quality of life addition to the OKW army). IMO it wouldn't really break the balance either seeing as how its not like the MG34 commanders utterly dominate right now.

From my own experience OKW struggles more due to Volks being too easy to push around by other mainline infantry and as Antilles said the Flak HT being pretty unviable to open with nowadays. Furthermore, you can only be aggressive with Kubels with a well executed early fuel/cut-off rush - which is more the exception than the rule. I think tweaking Volks/Mechanized Regiment/Kubel in general would be closer to giving OKW the flavor that relic intends but a stock HMG certainly wouldn't hurt.
5 Nov 2015, 21:10 PM
#112
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

While a nondoctrinal mg would help, I would rather see volksgrenadiers reworked. Make them cost 300 mp and more popcap, with better stock rifles (grenadier stats?). After 1 truck is built, they can upgrade to either 1 panzershreck and the ability to build sandbags, or 3 STGs and some kind of utility ability (smoke?).

This way, blobbing volks becomes less of an issue, due to their high cost. It will also lessen OKWs propensity to float.

In return, OKW finally gets a good scaling basic infantry force, which can be useful on the assault with STGs, or on the defensive with their rifles and sandbags. It will also make OKW feel more like the specialist army that it was originally, and make OKW more decision based as to where they want their munitions going, making them feel more 'starved'.

Thats just my view on the matter though.
5 Nov 2015, 21:14 PM
#113
avatar of SpaceHamster
Patrion 14

Posts: 474

Make mechanized truck a more appealing choice and you will see aggressive OKW early game.

It's just much safer to turtle behind a med truck, get a few leigs/mg34s/more volks or obers, hold a VP; and just take it slow and steady as you get your units to vet 5 and win the game that way.
5 Nov 2015, 21:17 PM
#114
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

First and foremost vet requirements on most okw units need 25-33% reduction.Vet 5 is largely cosmetic feature,yet serves to justify okw penalties.I don't really know why OKW still has penalties?
Vet 5 marginal feature,all strong units nerfed..so why are there penalties still?

Unless the units and vet get buffs,remove the vet 5 feature and penalties and extend the teching structure costs.
5 Nov 2015, 21:18 PM
#115
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

That increased shoot and sight range or that suppression on non suppression platform, that dual acc or rec acc bonus, such cosmetics, much useless.
5 Nov 2015, 21:20 PM
#116
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

That increased shoot and sight range or that suppression on non suppression platform, that dual acc or rec acc bonus, such cosmetics, much useless.


Cosmetic in the sense few units reach those vet levels in competitive games,except volks.And volks vet is shitnerfed.
5 Nov 2015, 21:21 PM
#117
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

While a nondoctrinal mg would help, I would rather see volksgrenadiers reworked. Make them cost 300 mp and more popcap, with better stock rifles (grenadier stats?). After 1 truck is built, they can upgrade to either 1 panzershreck and the ability to build sandbags, or 3 STGs and some kind of utility ability (smoke?).

This way, blobbing volks becomes less of an issue, due to their high cost. It will also lessen OKWs propensity to float.

In return, OKW finally gets a good scaling basic infantry force, which can be useful on the assault with STGs, or on the defensive with their rifles and sandbags. It will also make OKW feel more like the specialist army that it was originally, and make OKW more decision based as to where they want their munitions going, making them feel more 'starved'.

Thats just my view on the matter though.


What about obers then? Why would you get obers if more volks would be better? The moment Volks get AI upgrades, is the moment where obers get obsolete.
5 Nov 2015, 21:22 PM
#118
avatar of SpaceHamster
Patrion 14

Posts: 474

That increased shoot and sight range or that suppression on non suppression platform, that dual acc or rec acc bonus, such cosmetics, much useless.


Yeah, I don't know why people are complaining about mg34 vet when it vets up incredibly fast shooting infantry section units. At vet 5 it can self spot for its arc.

There was a reason mg34 was meta before the nerfs to it(and then extinct before the nerfhammer was turned into buffs again).
5 Nov 2015, 21:28 PM
#119
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

While a nondoctrinal mg would help, I would rather see volksgrenadiers reworked. Make them cost 300 mp and more popcap, with better stock rifles (grenadier stats?). After 1 truck is built, they can upgrade to either 1 panzershreck and the ability to build sandbags, or 3 STGs and some kind of utility ability (smoke?).

This way, blobbing volks becomes less of an issue, due to their high cost. It will also lessen OKWs propensity to float.

In return, OKW finally gets a good scaling basic infantry force, which can be useful on the assault with STGs, or on the defensive with their rifles and sandbags. It will also make OKW feel more like the specialist army that it was originally, and make OKW more decision based as to where they want their munitions going, making them feel more 'starved'.

Thats just my view on the matter though.


I kinda disagree with this, Volks IMO are actually at a good place - they're good for holding the line/stalling/meaning that if a unit rushes up against volks, they lose models. I'm perfectly fine with this. (maybe their higher vet needs a bit of a buff so they are actually competitive AI at endgame, it doesn't have to be they are awesome at AI but enough to use them defensively against high vet Allies.

The problem with OKW atm is that the elite units (Fallschirmjagers and Obers) are severely underperforming - They just don't kill infantry fast enough for their MP cost and are really squishy.

Frankly, I'm perfectly fine with Volks being as weak as they are (except at higher vet) and I'm perfectly fine with OKW not having a non-doc suppresion platform other than Kubel, but make the elite infantry as strong as they should be.

That way, OKW will have a decent AI Infantry counter while not being too strong earlygame.
5 Nov 2015, 21:33 PM
#120
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

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