OKW Sturm Pioneers Buff

While unfortunately logical since it's probably going to be more munitions worth than the 20 MP PGs cost over SPs, I'm pretty sure that would cause numerous Wehrmacht players to have an aneurysm.

Slightly confused on this. Do you mean it makes sense it should cost 90 munitions for trade of 20 MP? Or that it should be greater than 90 munitions to justify the cost further?

Sturmpios are fine.

The faction has 6 light/medium vehicle units.

Try using them if you're struggling instead of spamming volksgrenadiers and wondering why your 4 squads of 235mp infantry can't stand up to their 4 squads of 280 mp infantry.

Kubel wagons are your friend.

the problem with sturms is they are the starting unit (free unit) so it cant be to powerfull from the get go... thats why they were nerfed couple of times... and the combo with the kubel was too strong early on vs usf.

the solution would be to make the sturms better only if volks are going to be the starting unit so you would have to pay for them

you could make them the copy of pgrens in stats as well as the price of 340 mp (and to make it so they can be made only after one truck is set up so they dont come out to soon).

even without any buffs one thing is for sure... their exp needed to vet up should be looked at (mainly the exp needed from vet 2 to vet 3)

Factions start with a definate amount of base MP. The starting unit is subtracted from it. No unit is for free. The changes would not change the early game at all, only the mid-late game. So sturmpios could be actually a decent late game unit.

Slightly confused on this. Do you mean it makes sense it should cost 90 munitions for trade of 20 MP? Or that it should be greater than 90 munitions to justify the cost further?

Sorry, didn't realize you specified the cost.

Point was, while 90 munitions easily justifies a better showing over 20 MP, PGs will be so jelly they'll need some peanut butter.

I like the idea, I just don't think it would solve the the woes of OKW infantry.

OKW, imo, needs a complete overhaul. Vet 5 is the main thing holding the faction back. If you do manage to get a squad to vet 5, they are often OP, which is a nice reward, but it's often the case that you'll not get a squad that vetted, or the game has passed by, an the vetted squad has a nominal effect on the outcome.

Either Vet 5 needs to go, and the infantry vet rewards are brought in-line with other factions, or the vet needs to come quicker, and vet 4/5 bonuses need to be nerfed to levels allied vet 3 infantry can fight against.

Sturmpios are fine.

The faction has 6 light/medium vehicle units.

Try using them if you're struggling instead of spamming volksgrenadiers and wondering why your 4 squads of 235mp infantry can't stand up to their 4 squads of 280 mp infantry.

Kubel wagons are your friend.

The issue of the light OKW vehicles is the fragile state they are. With only one directly being a anti-infantry platform (Flak Halftrack) losing combat ability around mid game due to increase counters. Kubel's lack ANY survivability past the ten minute mark and as such can't perform direct suppression anymore and regulated to flank protection or use of recon.

The key issue of OKW is mid game where they don't have any strong (excluding liegs, broken buggers) unit to support itself. Yes, Panzer 4's and Luchs are great for support but when you have no effective anti-infantry squad besides Obers or call ins you lack tools to keep in the game outside of spamming. The first three above is also locked behind a tier to get.

I also assure you that I rarely go past 3 Volks squads and do 2 Sturmpioneers into 2 Volks with support. The issue is that when mid game comes around UKF/USF have enough veterancy and munitions to begin to upgrade leading to Sturmpioneers losing their advantage and becoming less combat effective. I never complained of Volksgrenadiers or mention spamming them but merely wanting Sturmpioneers becoming more useable past mid game as a combat unit to support the weaker Volks squads.

Additionally, even if they started with a Volks squad instead of an SP and were compensated manpower-wise similarly...well, nothing stops you from getting an SP immediately anyway which doesn't really change much from starting SP and building a Volks.

Actually they'd set them back more than you think. Fast Kubel would be weaker because Sturmpioneers wouldn't be present until a bit later, if you go Sturmpioneer first then the Kubel is delayed instead.

No, just no.
No more amo payed upgrades for OKW even if this would mean an important buff.

Improve their accuracy on the move and accelerate a little the veterancy scalling and they will become a verry good assault unit.

+1, only the STG44 I'm still thinking about

I like the idea, I just don't think it would solve the the woes of OKW infantry.

OKW, imo, needs a complete overhaul. Vet 5 is the main thing holding the faction back. If you do manage to get a squad to vet 5, they are often OP, which is a nice reward, but it's often the case that you'll not get a squad that vetted, or the game has passed by, an the vetted squad has a nominal effect on the outcome.

Either Vet 5 needs to go, and the infantry vet rewards are brought in-line with other factions, or the vet needs to come quicker, and vet 4/5 bonuses need to be nerfed to levels allied vet 3 infantry can fight against.

Vet 5 isn't the thing that's holding OKW back, but the insane vet requirements do. I've had only in 1 or 2 games a vet 5 luch. Also it's hard to achieve to get a vet 5 stuka zu fuss. A panzerwerfer/katushya gets to vet 3 like 5 times faster. If it would be 2x faster it would be a bit easier for OKW.

I agree, alot of OKW units have too big Vet requirements. Especially some vehicles. A 10%-25% faster vetting would help alot.

No, just no.
No more amo payed upgrades for OKW even if this would mean an important buff.

Improve their accuracy on the move and accelerate a little the veterancy scalling and they will become a verry good assault unit.

He does raise an important point - I think Small arms in general need to be reworked, esp the STG-44. Atm, it does behave a lot like you'd expect the MP40 to when it comes to damage and effectiveness compared to range (except with a lot more damage ofc).

Sturms Weapon range increased from meagre 3 to 10.
Vet requirements reduced by 25%.


Give volks a defensive 'for the fatherland ' like ability useable on only freindly territory useable for a short duration 15-20 secs on activation for early survival.Buff their k98k dmg on veterancy(accuracy and helath/armor would affect shreck blobbing,so no)

Obers - Cost 360.vet requirement -25%.Popcap to 9 from 10 and reinforce to 36.

Fallschirms - -25% vet requirement,reinforcement cost to 35.Add 1 member at vet 4.

OKW infantry problem solved.

All veterancy requirements on all factions and units should be look up.

Sturms Weapon range increased from meagre 3 to 10.
Vet requirements reduced by 25%.
Yeah, nope. Tweaking the medkit at vet 1, moving up vet buff around should be enough.

Give volks a defensive 'for the fatherland ' like ability useable on only freindly territory useable for a short duration 15-20 secs on activation for early survival.Buff their k98k dmg on veterancy(accuracy and helath/armor would affect shreck blobbing,so no)

Rare to see new abilities added. It doesn't sound bad a small dmg buff at later vet stages

Obers - Cost 360.vet requirement -25%.Popcap to 9 from 10 and reinforce to 36.

Don't touch cost. Popcap is arguable. Reinforce is more of a no. If anything is done, i'll say vet4 passive suppression should go away and instead be replaced by an active ability which cost munitions (like Paras).

Fallschirms - -25% vet requirement,reinforcement cost to 35.Add 1 member at vet 4.

What's the reinforcement cost now? I think it's barely fine. I'm not sure of adding an extra member, but if so i'll at least remove the +30% accuracy or even thinking of moving it to vet5

I don't know, I would still like if they got the incendiary grenades (instead of Volks who'd get back the old nade) to gain some utility (I know they can have flamers with the new doc, but... meh.).

On a sidenote, I see OP mention that okw relies so heavily on call-in inf. I am by no means an expert, but from what I hear, a slight Obers price reduction could be appropriate. I think it could help, judging from my observations. Slight! Then again, OP stated the inf call-ins are for the time until the Flak HQ arrives, but still...

Just a thought and sorry if the 2nd half was a bit offtopic

Getting sturmpioneers to vet 3 is a pain.