what's the advantage of Ostheer in 1V1

I am an old Wehrmacht player from COH1 so I naturally choose Ostheer(or called Wehrmacht) in COH2. I just defeat Soviet, USF, UKF(today) expert AI using Ostheer. But I find I need to play so concentrated so that I could defeat UKF. Today, I have a try on OKW against UKF expert. It was soooooooo easy. It was only about 10 minutes that my Jgpz4 rushed into enemy's base and destroyed 2 bunkers. Then 4 VG squads, all with panzershreck rushed into the base, threw grenades and destroyed half of the base......I have to admit, 5-people VG with shreck and medic care, perform better than Gren and OKW enters mid game much quicker than Ostheer.(My favourite OKW doctrine is fortified doctrine, whose defense is better than Ostheer's defensive doctrine as well)

I know Ostheer is designed as a late game army but Relic said UKF is also a late game army. So I really wondering what's the most advantage unit of Ostheer in early-mid game. Maybe PG and 222? They perform well against Soviet and USF but they are really weak against UKF(Perhaps my another question is about the most powerful strategy against UKF using Ostheer).

Most cost efficient armour and support weapons

Everything's versatile, and you get everything in streamlined teching.

NOTHING, BASICALLY. But osttruppen kinda make up for your disadvantages, namely the lack of survavibility and mobility

I agreed with u originally. But u know, using too much support weapons will be too negative or defensive.

Pz4 costs 135 fuel while T34 costs only 80 fuel and Cromwell costs 110 fuel. Although Pz4 could defeat T34 or Sherman individually, it could not overwhelm Cromwell. Cromwell is faster and more durable. Stug is good, but it still costs 95 fuel with less HP than SU85. So sometimes all my hope of a game is to tech Panther, which makes me quite difficult in the mid game.

So maybe it should be the best support weapons and most effective but not much efficient armor.

Most cost efficient armour and support weapons

I guess u had the same confuse like me so u chose Osttruppen. But, personally, I really don't like this unit......It looks like the silly conscripts. Perhaps I really should have a try on Osttruppen. But that will make me limited in doctrine as well.

NOTHING, BASICALLY. But osttruppen kinda make up for your disadvantages, namely the lack of survavibility and mobility

Today why Mechanic Assault Doctrine is so popular, I guess, is because of the problems I mentioned. But that would be a doctrine disadvantage. Moreover, Mechanic Assault does not work well against UKF, as Assault Grenadier does not have panzerfaust, Stug E could not penetrate middle tanks, British Sniper could easily wipe 250. Moreover, if Centaur AA comes, what would I do? British infantries would help Centaur clear Paks.So I could only use Stug G or Pz4. But that would make no sense to use Mechanic Assault.

I would say that if MechAssault is "popular" is because of several things :
- There is a trend effect, MA alter your gameplay quite noticeably (like ostruppen) and some top players use it with great effect
- This is after all a good commander, everything is useful and usable in the majority of games and this is a respectable T0 pick which remove the effort you have to do to read the ennemy gameplan and pick a commander reactively. You are the agressor here.
- This commander allow you to skip T1 entirely as it gives you a nice lineman infantery to replace the normal grenadier. Of course you can miss your nice panzerfaust shots but you have other alternatives. Skiping T1 will cut you snipers and mortars that can be of debatable use depending on your overall strategy. This economy either makes you build more AssGren/MG42 or hasten your path to T2 as you plan to make an early vehicle and put even more pressure on the opponent.

OP : the normal rooster of the OST is of a very good quality and extremly versatile compared to OKW where most of theyr units tends to be chirurgical tools defined to fulfill a precise role.
Your normal lineman, the grenadier, has a solid answer to any threat, are good at any range (depending on the target) and have a nice upgrade that carry them into the lategame.
Your other lineman the PG, is a very nice close/middle combat unit that can become a tankhunter.
Your tanks may have a specialisation, they are far from useless when facing another threat that the one they are suppose to kill (Ostwind is a reasonable threat to many tanks)

Basically, nothing non-doctrinal at the moment. But some particular commanders with good early game versatility and rather flexible gameplay granted by some commanders such as mechanised assault, osttruppen, elite troops makes it kinda balanced against other factions.
OST doesn't have the most cost efficient mainline infantry nor the best teching system but its units are decent by many aspect. And there are too many tactics you can rely on playing Ostheer such as Osttruppens backed by a Sniper, heavy gren spam, stug+ostwind play. In my opinion Wehrmacht is the most exciting faction for 2v2, 3v3 but least exciting in 1v1 department after USF. More commanders, more unit and it'll be fun.

Snipers and tier0 panzerfausts.

Why playing agains Ai ?

Try 1 vs 1 mode , its far more interesting and people actually think not like cpu , so enemy always have at gun or mines in entrance to stop jp4 rush.

Also CPU is cheating it see everything you do , where are you get bonus resources but his tactical thinking is at level of 10 years child (build counter to units that are on field not combined arms that fight agains all threads)


Ok i´ll go on topic.

Ostheer.
1. Sniper - his fire rate is great , he bleeds mp , and have stun shot ability that often force enemy to retreat. If you have micro for him , he´s great
2.versatile - no need to say more , best mines , great generalist infantry (grens get engine damaging faust , lmg), great tanks
3. team weapons. Mg42 hhve best supression , best damage and atvet 1 its incendiary rounds can kill every vehicle lighter than t70 (and even damage t70)
Their mortar will be best mortar after leigt nerf
Theri at gun have good penetration and at vet 1 it gets stun rounds
4. Tanks . Their tanks get get me out of here blitz, are often better thant their counterparts (t34 and p4) but also they cost more. Several doctrines give then smoke so they can safely retreat.
5.Mobile reinforcement - halftruck
6. They dont have -33% resource penalty like okw have
7. Doctrines. Theri best doctrines are
SCAS (becuase munny conversion and plane cheese)
mobile defense (cheap ifantry and good mid game with puma)
elite ("cheaty" vet 3 tiger for only 800 MP and also some other stuff like smoke , g43 , stun nade)
mechanized assault - while i dont recommend ass grens (normal are better) i like stug e and tiger , also haftruck with panzergrens is situaional but useful
lighting war and spearhead - useful abilities and tiger

OWK
1. Teching buildings - they give you something free like defense or heal
2. unit specialization - leigt is great howie , puma is great vehicle counter , jp4 id great agains tanks , obers are good agains ifantry , but often their units are also weak agains something other
3. Sneaky At guns , good howitzer , cheap but doctrinal mg make them effective (but worse as ostheer) in combined arms
4. good elite infantry (jagers , obers ,fusilliere , fallshirms)
5. great but costy tanks (p4 have better armor , jp4 is better stug panther comes sooner than in ostheer , great kingtiger) , they also lack special abilites like ostheer gets (smoke , stunnign round on stug)
6. Good versatile mines
7. vet 5


I think each of then has its own pros and cons and both are fun to play and potent if you exploid their strengts and cover their weeknesess


Hope this helps you.


PS: Start ranked 1vs1 agains players , you may loose but it brings new challenges and if you loose dont be shy and post here some replays , were glad to help you

Yeah, hector got it right, also mind that most good 1v1 players think that ostheer is much more powerfull in 1v1s than okw and it will be even more true with incoming LeIG nerf.

Yeah, hector got it right, also mind that most good 1v1 players think that ostheer is much more powerfull in 1v1s than okw and it will be even more true with incoming LeIG nerf.

Its more powerful because of better early game.

As okw you need to go panzerfussieler spam + jp4 agains usa rifle company if you want to survive erly - mid game if he goes both tiers or if he goes 2 aa haftrucks.

While ostheer is fine with mg , 3 grens , 1-2 snipers , good teller placing 222 and maybe puma if you dont like pak + it doesnt have BIG resource penalty and they get also better tank options (every vehicle is better than okw except jp4 i think , if we talk about eficienty for its cost)
Ostheer > OKW
p4 > 135 fuel cost p4 with resource penalty
oswind > luchs2 (late game , when tanks come , yes luchs have better shock value but it cant counter whole russian tier 3 + cover flanks)
stug < jp4
panther + oveprized teching = overprized panther
tiger > tiger 2 (cost efficient)
puma = puma

Snipers and tier0 panzerfausts.

Need to tech to use fausts.

Thank you very much, Hector!!! Yesterday I overwhelmed British AI with huge advantage because I gave up grenadier and P4 but used 2 mg42 in the early game. In fact, I found somehow I am never good at using grenadiers. I replaced them with flame-pioneer and pg, and optimize teching. And I notice why I can use OKW destroy UKF so easily because UKF's tanks can not penetrate JgPz IV in the mid-game. This is totally an army advantage.

Actually I believe Stug III G is even better to use than JgPz IV, for me. They both have 75mm canon with the same penetration but Stug III is much faster and cheaper. The meaning of Stug III instead of Pz4 is penetration. Of course, JgPz IV has more armor and HP. (I still miss Marder I or Geschutzwagen in COH1, high damage and fast speed)

Doctrine is also an interesting thing. I found I just could not play well in some doctrines. I never win a match using Close Air Support I use Mobile Defense, German Mechanical, Spearhead and Storm Doctrine very well. I used Mechanical Assault in the past but I could not use Stug III E well, which disturbs my teching so I gave up and use STUG III G with Panther or Spearhead's tiger a lot.

All right, I will start playing against players since I have beaten all allies armies using axis. I have found that axis troops has more diversities. Unlike allies always spam units, axis has more combinations.

OST has Grenadier with K98 or LMG42 or G43, PG with STG44, Pioneer with flamethrower or MP40, Assault Grenadier with MP40, Stormtroopers with STG44(camouflage and sprint ability) to choose.

OKW has SturmPioneer with STG44, VG with K98, PF or Scavenge infantry with G43, Fallschirmjäger with FG42, Obersolden with LMG34 to choose.

Why playing agains Ai ?

Try 1 vs 1 mode , its far more interesting and people actually think not like cpu , so enemy always have at gun or mines in entrance to stop jp4 rush.

Also CPU is cheating it see everything you do , where are you get bonus resources but his tactical thinking is at level of 10 years child (build counter to units that are on field not combined arms that fight agains all threads)


Ok i´ll go on topic.

Ostheer.
1. Sniper - his fire rate is great , he bleeds mp , and have stun shot ability that often force enemy to retreat. If you have micro for him , he´s great
2.versatile - no need to say more , best mines , great generalist infantry (grens get engine damaging faust , lmg), great tanks
3. team weapons. Mg42 hhve best supression , best damage and atvet 1 its incendiary rounds can kill every vehicle lighter than t70 (and even damage t70)
Their mortar will be best mortar after leigt nerf
Theri at gun have good penetration and at vet 1 it gets stun rounds
4. Tanks . Their tanks get get me out of here blitz, are often better thant their counterparts (t34 and p4) but also they cost more. Several doctrines give then smoke so they can safely retreat.
5.Mobile reinforcement - halftruck
6. They dont have -33% resource penalty like okw have
7. Doctrines. Theri best doctrines are
SCAS (becuase munny conversion and plane cheese)
mobile defense (cheap ifantry and good mid game with puma)
elite ("cheaty" vet 3 tiger for only 800 MP and also some other stuff like smoke , g43 , stun nade)
mechanized assault - while i dont recommend ass grens (normal are better) i like stug e and tiger , also haftruck with panzergrens is situaional but useful
lighting war and spearhead - useful abilities and tiger

OWK
1. Teching buildings - they give you something free like defense or heal
2. unit specialization - leigt is great howie , puma is great vehicle counter , jp4 id great agains tanks , obers are good agains ifantry , but often their units are also weak agains something other
3. Sneaky At guns , good howitzer , cheap but doctrinal mg make them effective (but worse as ostheer) in combined arms
4. good elite infantry (jagers , obers ,fusilliere , fallshirms)
5. great but costy tanks (p4 have better armor , jp4 is better stug panther comes sooner than in ostheer , great kingtiger) , they also lack special abilites like ostheer gets (smoke , stunnign round on stug)
6. Good versatile mines
7. vet 5


I think each of then has its own pros and cons and both are fun to play and potent if you exploid their strengts and cover their weeknesess


Hope this helps you.


PS: Start ranked 1vs1 agains players , you may loose but it brings new challenges and if you loose dont be shy and post here some replays , were glad to help you

Actually I really think USF now is the most powerful army in allies. Numerous rear troops(outnumbers Soviet's conscripts) are suppressing all the game! Their ambulance provides both mobile treatment and reinforce. Just looking at Top10 players' winning rate, u'll find USF...

Recently I try Stug+Ostwind(optional) instead of two Pz4, then tech to Panther or Tiger. And things became easier. Pz4's penetration really sucks in front of British tanks.

Basically, nothing non-doctrinal at the moment. But some particular commanders with good early game versatility and rather flexible gameplay granted by some commanders such as mechanised assault, osttruppen, elite troops makes it kinda balanced against other factions.
OST doesn't have the most cost efficient mainline infantry nor the best teching system but its units are decent by many aspect. And there are too many tactics you can rely on playing Ostheer such as Osttruppens backed by a Sniper, heavy gren spam, stug+ostwind play. In my opinion Wehrmacht is the most exciting faction for 2v2, 3v3 but least exciting in 1v1 department after USF. More commanders, more unit and it'll be fun.

In 1 vs 1 dont go panther if you want tiger. Just go tiger and 2 stugs or 2 p4 depending on map control , enemy build order etc.

Also if you have good micro you can try mg , gren gren gren 222 healing sniper pak sniper build order (later on add tanks)

This is really strong build order but requires good micro and also smart teller placing

Best support units.
Cost effective tanks.

Sniper + MG from start
Teller mines
Tiger

MG,sniper,specially ost AT,stug+ostwind ....mmmm may also these unit save u in late game,without panther tiger