We know the stats, now lets see how they perform:
FLAME GRENADE
-Flame grenade vs Static
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5ebOZjccM
-Flame grenade vs Static repositioning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVFSDeyULvI
-Flame grenade vs Building direct
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ObP9a22Ss
-Flame grenade vs Building facing away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Z6Rntv9Bg
MOLTOV
-Molotov vs Static
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5sNb4N-A8
-Molotov vs Static repositioning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtTqSQzlKRI
-Molotov vs Building direct
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frIeH0zxBlY
-Molotov vs Building facing away
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zehxx44zAhE
OKW Flame grenades vs Molotovs [with video]
13 Oct 2015, 05:27 AM
#1
Posts: 157
13 Oct 2015, 05:30 AM
#2
Posts: 166
The Molotov is crap and you have to pay before you can use. Maxim crews animation causes them to be slaughtered.
Yup. Patch did little to solve the problem.
Yup. Patch did little to solve the problem.
13 Oct 2015, 06:01 AM
#3
Posts: 1384
30 munitions versus 15.
T2 versus global upgrade.
Your testing methodology is also shit.
T2 versus global upgrade.
Your testing methodology is also shit.
13 Oct 2015, 07:07 AM
#4
Posts: 301
30 munitions versus 15.
T2 versus global upgrade.
Your testing methodology is also shit.
+1
Not even counting the OKW munition income penalty (is that 80% or 66%? i cant remember) and the hard choice you have to make between throwing a grenade, planting a mine and buying a panzerschreck.
In comparaison, the molotov can be distributed like candys with no punishment for beeing generous.
...For conflict is the great teacher,
and pain... the perfect educator...
and pain... the perfect educator...
13 Oct 2015, 07:15 AM
#5
Posts: 145
+1
Not even counting the OKW munition income penalty (is that 80% or 66%? i cant remember) and the hard choice you have to make between throwing a grenade, planting a mine and buying a panzerschreck.
In comparaison, the molotov can be distributed like candys with no punishment for beeing generous.
It's 80%.
20:53 - slother: its time
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: fail time
20:54 - slother: its time to lose our streak
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: hehe let me have a shower
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: i need to feel clean for the rape
13 Oct 2015, 07:18 AM
#6
Posts: 1653
The flamenade is even 35 ammo if you consider the 80% income.
13 Oct 2015, 07:19 AM
#7
Posts: 1122
Hard choice, wipe maxims which can be salvaged for fuel with 1 grenade or not? MMM what i should choice? Prob let him escape. Need dem pshreck. Rakettens and jp4 were never an option.
Dem axis fanbois.
On a serious note, its a problem with a horrible maxims gunner death loop, not incendiary grenades and molotovs. In situations where whole maxim sqaud dies hmg42 just magically teleports to another entity and retreats with 1 model dead.
Dem axis fanbois.
On a serious note, its a problem with a horrible maxims gunner death loop, not incendiary grenades and molotovs. In situations where whole maxim sqaud dies hmg42 just magically teleports to another entity and retreats with 1 model dead.
13 Oct 2015, 10:44 AM
#8
Posts: 1740
The problems is more the Maxim than the Flame nade IMO.
The maxim is simply bugged which leads to a full unit kill many times while standing inside the flames.
Otherwise each of the two abilities has its pros and cons.
Molotov pro:
Costs less, Available right after research (no need for T1/T2, can be researched quickly with only little fuel cost)
Molotov con:
Long ass animation, needs separate research
Incendiary pro:
Faster throwing animation, comes without research
Incendiary con:
Costs double the munitions on an already munitions starved faction, one nade is one mine less.
Needs 40 fuel to be "researched" (comes later than the molotov).
In addition the incendiary is the only reliable building cleaner the OKW has before/without Medic HQ.
The maxim is simply bugged which leads to a full unit kill many times while standing inside the flames.
Otherwise each of the two abilities has its pros and cons.
Molotov pro:
Costs less, Available right after research (no need for T1/T2, can be researched quickly with only little fuel cost)
Molotov con:
Long ass animation, needs separate research
Incendiary pro:
Faster throwing animation, comes without research
Incendiary con:
Costs double the munitions on an already munitions starved faction, one nade is one mine less.
Needs 40 fuel to be "researched" (comes later than the molotov).
In addition the incendiary is the only reliable building cleaner the OKW has before/without Medic HQ.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
13 Oct 2015, 12:31 PM
#9
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Incendiary con:The rest of your points are good, but I can't agree with this one. First, the incendiary grenade does not need to be researched. The nade is obtained naturally through faction teching (similar to, say, Grenadier riflenade). There is no feasible scenario in which you don't put down your truck early into the game. It's even more accurate to say that the incendinade unlocks in the early game after a small amount of time. You have to tech, the incendinade is just a bonus.
Needs 40 fuel to be "researched" (comes later than the molotov).
Second, it's not, strictly speaking, later than the Molo. You can literally put down the first truck the moment the game begins, if you wish so. Yes, early truck without at least 3 squads built is a move that will impair your crucial early game presence and is generally not done. But then again, neither is the Molotov researched before you have at least a few con squads.
I would place Incendinade teching as a pro, not a con.
13 Oct 2015, 12:51 PM
#10
Posts: 1740
The rest of your points are good, but I can't agree with this one. First, the incendiary grenade does not need to be researched. The nade is obtained naturally through faction teching (similar to, say, Grenadier riflenade). There is no feasible scenario in which you don't put down your truck early into the game. It's even more accurate to say that the incendinade unlocks in the early game after a small amount of time. You have to tech, the incendinade is just a bonus.
Second, it's not, strictly speaking, later than the Molo. You can literally put down the first truck the moment the game begins, if you wish so. Yes, early truck without at least 3 squads built is a move that will impair your crucial early game presence and is generally not done. But then again, neither is the Molotov researched before you have at least a few con squads.
I would place Incendinade teching as a pro, not a con.
Good arguments, but I would still place it between pro and con because, as you said, the Incendiary CAN come earlier but usually does not.
If a soviet player sees that his enemy places all his units in buildings, he can research it for a small amount of MP that usually does not disturb his build order significantly.
The OKW player on the other hand cannot place his Medic HQ after his first unit because he heavily loses map control while the HQ is being build (300 MP). That said, the med HQ is usually being build after 3-4 units while the molotov research can be effctively way earlier.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
13 Oct 2015, 12:52 PM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Needs 40 fuel to be "researched" (comes later than the molotov).
Actually, it costs 0. You'll have fuel to deploy the truck faster then the truck arrives at the location you want it to be, unless its base sector, then you'll have to wait couple of seconds.
You won't tech before 3rd volk, you won't research molos before 3rd con.
Timing is exactly the same, but OKW will have a tech, medics and new units and sov will be behind in tech and be forced to keep spamming cons.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 Oct 2015, 18:01 PM
#12
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
OP
We already know that they are practically the same, on which they differ is on animations times to throw and travel. Test is useless.
Exactly. Timing is practically equal.
37.5muni to be precise if you use 80%. Since base income is equal for all factions, it ends up been close to 35muni although.
Your testing methodology is also shit.
We already know that they are practically the same, on which they differ is on animations times to throw and travel. Test is useless.
You won't tech before 3rd volk, you won't research molos before 3rd con.
Exactly. Timing is practically equal.
The flamenade is even 35 ammo if you consider the 80% income.
37.5muni to be precise if you use 80%. Since base income is equal for all factions, it ends up been close to 35muni although.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 Oct 2015, 20:03 PM
#13
Posts: 1930
Needs 40 fuel to be "researched" (comes later than the molotov)
OKW get 40 fuel at the start.
13 Oct 2015, 20:31 PM
#14
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedSo we should make the okw incendiary grenade worse than the moltov? Got it. Haxis OP, pls nerf.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
13 Oct 2015, 21:03 PM
#15
Posts: 976
+1
Sovs hmg still don't have any chance of surviving a flame nades.
No skill, no gameplay required so it must be change.
Sovs hmg still don't have any chance of surviving a flame nades.
No skill, no gameplay required so it must be change.
VoltarDark
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
13 Oct 2015, 21:14 PM
#16
Posts: 521
So sad how the maxim retreats. Has to slow down every time it changes direction, and freezes when whoever's carrying the gun dies.
13 Oct 2015, 23:06 PM
#17
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
The issue here (hard to see in tests which were not done very well) is that the maxim crew runs into the nade to pack up and retreat. This means every model takes damage for the maxim amount of time. Also the faster throw animation allows the nade to be nearly undodgeable up close.
Problem is not the nade, its the way in which weapon teams response to them, which is different by faction for some unknown reason.
Problem is not the nade, its the way in which weapon teams response to them, which is different by faction for some unknown reason.
14 Oct 2015, 00:57 AM
#18
1 Posts: 412
The issue here (hard to see in tests which were not done very well) is that the maxim crew runs into the nade to pack up and retreat. This means every model takes damage for the maxim amount of time. Also the faster throw animation allows the nade to be nearly undodgeable up close.
Problem is not the nade, its the way in which weapon teams response to them, which is different by faction for some unknown reason.
Im just guessing but I feel certain it is because of 6 man crews vs 4 man crews. Because all 4 man crews do it.
14 Oct 2015, 01:03 AM
#19
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Im just guessing but I feel certain it is because of 6 man crews vs 4 man crews. Because all 4 man crews do it.
I'm pretty sure it's the way the Maxim is coded compared to the other HMGs. Maxim's the only one whose minimap icon that has three arms coming out of a circle like AT guns while other HMGs are just dots, and it is the only one where losing a crew member requires another to walk up to it to take over moving it like AT guns. I always imagined it was intentional off that (but I still fucking hated it).
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