Why is Air Superiority "OP" ?

Countless times I´ve heard people complaining about Air Superiority being "OP". However, I can't figure out why there are so many people joining the chorus which has even led to a massive nerf of that ability in the october Preview. I personally have yet to experience high casualties due to that 325 mun ability... apart from 1 wiped Gren squad and a dozen of destroyed Battlegroup HQ.

I've always made it out in time. The big red circle and the huge amount flares which are coming down are extremely obvious. Identifying the doctrine isn't hard either, thanks to Commandos.

So, I tested. I put a Jagdtiger (no engine uprade) into the middle of Rhine crossing. Then I placed the offmap behind the Jagdtiger and once the red flares had landed on the ground, I ordered him to retreat. He had to retreat trough the whole circle and made it out in time with just a scratch (1 bomb landed near him).

So, what's the problem?

The horrible pathing when retreating all units makes is one reason why it sucks to be German when Air Superiority appears. On small roads with multiple tanks, most tanks will start to turn 180° and block each other. It's not a problem caused by air superiority but from pathing but it makes air superiority much stronger than probably intended.

The other thing you mentioned is the complete block of OKW out of base buildings. Every static HQ is wiped after air superiority which is a big kick in the nuts for the OKW player from which he often cannot return. OKW HQs are meant to be placed outside the base. Yes it's risky but it's a fundamental part of their gameplay. This shouldn't be countered by only one ability.

...and a dozen of destroyed Battlegroup HQ.

You answered the question yourself. It destroys the HQ's completely without giving a chance to defend or repair after the attack. Thats fundamentally op

You answered the question yourself. It destroys the HQ's completely without giving a chance to defend or repair after the attack. Thats fundamentally op

Then why not put a damage modifier to prevent okw base deaths without medium tanks and fortifications surviving the bombing with 25-50% hp?

You answered the question yourself. It destroys the HQ's completely without giving a chance to defend or repair after the attack. Thats fundamentally op

For 325 muni it SHOULD wipe OKW trucks. If you dont want your HQs getting wiped reduce the damage and cost of the ability.

Wiping OKW trucks really is all it's useful for. If you can't get your units out of the circle you've been clumped up way too much in the first place. Not that I agree with abilities that can wipe a building in one go, but if it's gonna be nerfed, its cost should also be significantly reduced.

Either way, I really disagree with the coming nerf. It's gonna be even easier to escape the ability, yet it will still wipe OKW buildings.

For 325 muni it SHOULD wipe OKW trucks. If you dont want your HQs getting wiped reduce the damage and cost of the ability.

As a self admitted Brit fanboy it really shouldn't.

The only time I see this being valid is if it only does this if more than 1 Mech HQ is in the same sector.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

Losing a building that is 60 fuel and 200mp worth isn't that tragic to me, especially if that happens in the late game and the enemy is paying 325 ammo for it. I also never lose my Flak HQ because I place it far behind my lines.

However, if you place all your buildings at the frontline and even close to each other, it's entirely your fault and a L2P issue.

So, a 160 ammo axis offmap can kill an allied 600mp unit. But an allied 325 ammo offmap should not wipe a 60fuel and 200mp building. What kind of logic is that?!

One shotting OKW trucks with no chance of counter play is simply against core game mechanics since the game resolves around counter play. As long OKW trucks have nothing like brace they should not be wiped out by a single click ability since those trucks cost fuel and produce units, hence they are crucial for the whole faction that is designed around those trucks.

Then why not put a damage modifier to prevent okw base deaths without medium tanks and fortifications surviving the bombing with 25-50% hp?

Guess this change in patch notes effects air superiority too? since they are both listed under Artillery changes. In that case it does exactly what you said.

Heavy Artillery Shells
We want to reduce the effectiveness of artillery shells against production buildings.
Now do 25% less damage against base structures

For 325 muni it SHOULD wipe OKW trucks. If you dont want your HQs getting wiped reduce the damage and cost of the ability.

No ability, no matter how expensive should wipe a base building on its own, unless combined with other artillery sources. If a team wants to be able to wipe enemy base with artillery, it should be a strategic decision, ie. combining multiple off map abilities in one place (instead of using it of different locations) or calling in an artyllery unit (mp/fuel/popcap cost).

I agree however that muni cost should be reduced when it gets nerfed.

Losing a building that is 60 fuel and 200mp worth isn't that tragic to me, especially if that happens in the late game and the enemy is paying 325 ammo for it. I also never lose my Flak HQ because I place it far behind my lines.

However, if you place all your buildings at the frontline and even close to each other, it's entirely your fault and a L2P issue.

Fun fact: Stationary russian artillery is 600mp and gets wiped by multiple Ostheer commanders for just 160 ammo (aaaand everything soft around it).

Its not just about the resource costs, its about
the field presence, OKW get a huge, often unrecoverable, tactical blow when the trucks get destroyed.

Wrong placement is a valid argument when dealing with regular units, but against this airstrike a truck will get wiped no matter how far it is placed, once scouted, and it will get scouted, especially in the case of a Flak HQ, unless you place it so far away that it never engages enemy units.

It's pretty annoying. Air Supremacy got like 85% chance of destroying your tech base, and there's another one (sort like railway arty which don't need vision) that destroys your base 100%. It's unfair aind doesn't make the gameplay fun. It's no skill against skills to take down tech structures.

One shotting howitzers with no chance of counter play is simply against core game mechanics since the game resolves around counter play. As long ML-20s have nothing like brace they should not be wiped out by a single click ability since those things cost a whopping 600mp

You forgot to add this.

The horrible pathing when retreating all units makes is one reason why it sucks to be German when Air Superiority appears. On small roads with multiple tanks, most tanks will start to turn 180° and block each other. It's not a problem caused by air superiority but from pathing but it makes air superiority much stronger than probably intended.

The other thing you mentioned is the complete block of OKW out of base buildings. Every static HQ is wiped after air superiority which is a big kick in the nuts for the OKW player from which he often cannot return. OKW HQs are meant to be placed outside the base. Yes it's risky but it's a fundamental part of their gameplay. This shouldn't be countered by only one ability.

You have to remember that mechanised artillery is in the game for just the same purpose from the release of wfa. It is way cheaper with 180 and it does nearly the same, you just need few f.e. pack howie, at gun, tank or whatever shots to end trucks misery. So i would say that if air superiority is used to kill just one truck then its a waste of ammo if other ability can do it just as fine with cheaper cost. Also there is a chance of AS not killing a truck even if it is in the middle of the strike, which is bullshit in my opinion. To conclude, playing as okw i would take AS on my truck every time instead of 3 triple lmg sapper squads on the field.

But maybe it can be toned down to the point when it always leaves a sliver of health to the truck. Then the cost should also be changed to somewhere 200 muni

I heard people tell me the bomber planes should be able to be countered by aa OKW emplacements and Schwere Panzer HQ.

There are no planes, the bombs spawn in mid air

I remember this ability to be an old Axis ability first. It was removed due to people complaining that is was OP and biased towards Axis. Now that it is back, but in Allied hands, it suddenly is justified by an enormous muni cost. People make no sense to me, the ability should not wipe full health OKW trucks, things like this shouldn't even be in the game. The most offending thing is that the ability can be called in upon base sectors as well, annihilating OKW trucks in base sector as well.

I ask of you, how much fun would it be for you if 10 Luftwaffe planes come flying into your Soviet base and destroy your T4 and T3 or either one, needing you to spend another 120-200 something fuel on teching, again. For OKW this means, waiting for another truck to be deployed and placing it again. This is a huge penalty for a fuel starved faction.

Why they decided to return the ability, is beyond me.

I heard people tell me the bomber planes should be able to be countered by aa OKW emplacements and Schwere Panzer HQ.

There are no planes, the bombs spawn in mid air

I remember this ability to be an old Axis ability first. It was removed due to people complaining that is was OP and biased towards Axis. Now that it is back, but in Allied hands, it suddenly is justified by an enormous muni cost. People make no sense to me, the ability should not wipe full health OKW trucks, things like this shouldn't even be in the game. The most offending thing is that the ability can be called in upon base sectors as well, annihilating OKW trucks in base sector as well.

I ask of you, how much fun would it be for you if 10 Luftwaffe planes come flying into your Soviet base and destroy your T4 and T3 or either one, needing you to spend another 120-200 something fuel on teching, again. For OKW this means, waiting for another truck to be deployed and placing it again. This is a huge penalty for a fuel starved faction.

Why they decided to return the ability, is beyond me.

This. +1

You forgot to add this.

those trucks cost fuel and produce units, hence they are crucial for the whole faction that is designed around those trucks.

Seems like you forgot this line. Are soviets designed around howitzers? Nowhere I ever mentioned that the pak43 for the same sake should be able to sustain off map fire.

apart from 1 wiped Gren squad and a dozen of destroyed Battlegroup HQ.

So, what's the problem?

Not to entirely sure myself, also it doesn't destroy HQs in one go half the time either, it's mostly a coinflip toss when doing so.

What i think it is, is people being lazy wanting easy wins and don't want their "plans" being fudged with.

I remember this ability to be an old Axis ability first. It was removed due to people complaining that is was OP and biased towards Axis. Now that it is back, but in Allied hands, it suddenly is justified by an enormous muni cost. People make no sense to me, the ability should not wipe full health OKW trucks, things like this shouldn't even be in the game. The most offending thing is that the ability can be called in upon base sectors as well, annihilating OKW trucks in base sector as well.

I ask of you, how much fun would it be for you if 10 Luftwaffe planes come flying into your Soviet base and destroy your T4 and T3 or either one, needing you to spend another 120-200 something fuel on teching, again. For OKW this means, waiting for another truck to be deployed and placing it again. This is a huge penalty for a fuel starved faction.

Why they decided to return the ability, is beyond me.

That doctrine was never released because it was OP in general. 5 Panzer grenadiers with body armor, 2 flamers + satchels and smoke nades; normal mortars firing incendiary rounds; 160mp converted to 75 ammo, a forward HQ and that strategic bombing.

Bombing in base is partly true. It highly depends on the map. However, you are always able to place the hq in a safe spot.

The most offending thing is that the ability can be called in upon base sectors as well, annihilating OKW trucks in base sector as well.

That's not true. Go play UKF before starting another rant please.

You can't call it in base, if there is more than one truck that dies in the strike, it's your fault for putting your HQ too close

And i just see axis player claiming it's op shit, ok so can we talk about CAS, that commander being able to shut down arty piece with 2 clicks

Losing your HQ and all the troops is just what we endure has allies with this fella(CAS and other commanders), "oh look i'm gonna pop a 50Kg bomb on your retreat point and everything will die"

I understand that this is not the same ammount of firepower, but for the price if it doesn't kill the truck, it's garbage, if air supremacy get toned down, the price needs to drop too

Air supremacy will be nerfed when CAS will get withdrawn from the game.