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old CoH fan, how does CoH2 compare?

9 Oct 2015, 05:41 AM
#41
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Other than vaulting, you're smoking crack. The COH2 UI is so incredibly bad vs the original, reversing is a joke now and vehicles dance like they are having an epileptic seizure when you use reverse when in vCOH it was easy just to shift click back up.


The UI is mostly personal preference, of course players that played CoH1 for the better part of a decade would prefer CoH1's UI. I would agree with reversing, according to Cruzz vehicles consider queued move orders complete if they get within 25 meters of it, that needs to be reduced to at least 8. The pathing is a problem that people have always complained about, I went back and watched some vCoH casts a few months ago and people were complaining about the pathing then too.

Personally I rate the UI as overall superior. You get a unit bar, so you can always see the status of every unit without needing to visit them. You can reinforce large groups at one time as well, which is an invaluable change.
9 Oct 2015, 06:52 AM
#42
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

Pros
+ regular balance patches to keep things fresh
+ coh2 Brits are far better designed than vcoh Brits (which makes 2v2 rival coh1)
+ some micro stuff (reverse button, reinforcing all infantry units at same time not individual)
+ probably new factions coming
+ changes to sniper functionality
+ no more hidden trust rating disconnect arbitration bullshit

Cons
- poorly optimized
- No leaderboards in-game
- 2v2 AT is vs random teams and arranged teams lel
- micro transaction doctrines, prepare to open your wallet - MINUS THIS
- changes to pop cap system from coh1 leads to getting pop capped and income bogged down with far less units on the field usually (less advantage for great multi task players) - MINUS THIS
- meta game, while always changing, is still pretty shallow in almost every patch due to lack of fuel based upgrades and certain units being very dominant in most patches to date
- far more instant squad wipes from huge mine hits, demo charges, certain tanks or nades, etc
- you can't micro out of infantry 1 use AT abilities (like US sticky bombs of panzferfausts) once the ability is activated it will shoot you from across the map or though a building lol - MINUS THIS
- not a fan of every faction using the same vet system thats based on damage dealt and received (personal preference) - MINUS THIS
- vaulting doesn't really add much, it just detracts from positioning importance in the early game since every fence/wall is now a viable flank route - MINUS THIS



If you played vcoh competitively in 1v1 and that was all you cared for, you will probably be disappointed. If you want to go back to coh1 the 1v1 ladder is still pretty active, but there is almost no competitive community support these days such as tournaments or shoutcasts. 2v2 AT in coh1 IS a ghost town, but you'll probably enjoy coh2 if you're in to team games.


Not sure about the micro transition doctrines though, commanders are rather easy to farm like 0% hassle in farming at all just have to wait a bit and ye got your free commander. I also kinda like the AT nade flying across the map thing cause well you walked into it and it goes as long as theres line of sight. If theres no line of sight the AT nade/Faust will just land on the ground. And its funny :D By intentions that relic has for this game there are more pros than cons. (added - MINUS THIS to show what shouldnt count as a con by intentions and others mentioned in my post)

P.S. We might see Relic optimize the game once they're done with whatever plan they have for coh2. They always seem to pull something out of nowhere and put it in once we are satisfied with the balance which leads to imbalance once again.
9 Oct 2015, 07:07 AM
#43
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



Not sure about the micro transition doctrines though, commanders are rather easy to farm like 0% hassle in farming at all just have to wait a bit and ye got your free commander. I also kinda like the AT nade flying across the map thing cause well you walked into it and it goes as long as theres line of sight. If theres no line of sight the AT nade/Faust will just land on the ground. And its funny :D By intentions that relic has for this game there are more pros than cons. (added - MINUS THIS to show what shouldnt count as a con by intentions and others mentioned in my post)

P.S. We might see Relic optimize the game once they're done with whatever plan they have for coh2. They always seem to pull something out of nowhere and put it in once we are satisfied with the balance which leads to imbalance once again.


commanders are rather easy to farm?? i got 250hours now and exactly 2 commander drops. 125hours per commmander is not easy farm especially when you consider there are commanders which are mandatory in 1v1 and 2v2 and you are at a real disadvantage without it.
9 Oct 2015, 07:08 AM
#44
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2



Vaulting is a downgrade?

Made a video explaining why. Long story short in many cases where walls and fences forced you to avoid funneling by syncing flanks coming from several different directions, now it is more viable to have units spread further out charging straight ahead. This is a early game issue since fences and walls get broken later anyway, but it makes aggressive MG play less viable and in some areas (middle Semois) MGs are very underpowered when compared to coh1.

9 Oct 2015, 07:40 AM
#45
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2015, 02:26 AMVuther

Any idea how long the concept's been used? 'Cause I remember first playing League of Legends which simply maps things to QWER and DF and wondering "How the fuck did I never see RTS-style video games do something as obvious before this"

Blitzkrieg from Nival has used grid key since the beginning which is around 2005 I think.
9 Oct 2015, 07:58 AM
#46
avatar of Qbix

Posts: 254

CoH2 took some lessons from Coh:Online and incorporated them into an advanced version of vCoH. You will see better visuals and maps with far more little objects. Everything just looks and feels better than in vCoH.

You have multiple Commanders, which can change a lot about how a faction plays and make for much more strategic diversity than we had in vCoH. We have 5 factions with all their strengths and weaknesses. You can now vault over fences and such, which opens up the map do much more possibilities. And if you are a geek, you can even chose different camo skins for your vehicles.

There are some downsides ofc but the advantages outweigh them. Aside from the ever changing balance, I can't seem to find anything worse than it was in vCoH. Well, optimization sucks, so make sure your rig is good.
9 Oct 2015, 10:16 AM
#47
avatar of BrutusHR

Posts: 262



Other than vaulting, you're smoking crack. The COH2 UI is so incredibly bad vs the original, reversing is a joke now and vehicles dance like they are having an epileptic seizure when you use reverse when in vCOH it was easy just to shift click back up.

The only problem is a lot of the player base left as is evidenced by most of the top vCOH players leaving and then coming back recently to dominate the COH2 tournament. I want COH2 to be a successful game because the genre is great but god it's such a hollow shell vs vCOH.


CoH2 UI is "ok", couple of months ago i installed vCoh and noticed that UI is weird, bad scaling. And with CoH2 ui i meant icons in upper right corner and reinforcing all squads at same time, u know, small things like that.
9 Oct 2015, 19:19 PM
#48
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Personally I rate the UI as overall superior. You get a unit bar, so you can always see the status of every unit without needing to visit them. You can reinforce large groups at one time as well, which is an invaluable change.

Yeah, when I first played the beta and noticed that, I pretty much immediately yelled out "IT'S EVERYTHING I'VE EVER WANTED".
9 Oct 2015, 21:55 PM
#49
avatar of Blov

Posts: 13

Just watch the Operation Charlie Fox tournament and compare it to the last season of COH1 SNF... COH2 isn't even close, regrettably.

Like, the Commanders lack strategic in-game depth, add a P2W issue (MOBA model does not apply in a full price RTS) and are largely bloat. VCOH's doctrines had more depth, were more interesting & were easier to grasp. The tech system is a mess all around and makes for none of the interesting meta-game stuff of COH1. The plays in COH 1 were bigger, lethality was a lot greater in terms of early mistakes actually costing the game rather than games dragging out for ages despite being wildly uneven.

Even the meta in the early stages of COH2 was healthier than it is now despite balance being all over the place, maphacks are rife, playerbase is a bit toxic and watching the Charlie Fox tournament... it's just not particularly exciting, which is a shame because the fan enthusiasm here is just something deserved by a much better game.
9 Oct 2015, 22:57 PM
#50
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2015, 21:55 PMBlov
Just watch the Operation Charlie Fox tournament and compare it to the last season of COH1 SNF... COH2 isn't even close, regrettably.

Like, the Commanders lack strategic in-game depth, add a P2W issue (MOBA model does not apply in a full price RTS) and are largely bloat. VCOH's doctrines had more depth, were more interesting & were easier to grasp. The tech system is a mess all around and makes for none of the interesting meta-game stuff of COH1. The plays in COH 1 were bigger, lethality was a lot greater in terms of early mistakes actually costing the game rather than games dragging out for ages despite being wildly uneven.

Even the meta in the early stages of COH2 was healthier than it is now despite balance being all over the place, maphacks are rife, playerbase is a bit toxic and watching the Charlie Fox tournament... it's just not particularly exciting, which is a shame because the fan enthusiasm here is just something deserved by a much better game.


you mean Ami or Yoink saying "will he go BARs or M8" like a million times?

depth is depth but the vcoh depth didn't do much for strategy variety in SNF4. extremely great season but in terms of variety of strategies deployed, it was same as SNF5's con spam vs. gren spam.
9 Oct 2015, 23:00 PM
#51
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559



you mean Ami or Yoink saying "will he go BARs or M8" like a million times?

depth is depth but the vcoh depth didn't do much for strategy variety in SNF4. extremely great season but in terms of variety of strategies deployed, it was same as SNF5's con spam vs. gren spam.


Agreed.

There is a lot of "rose colored" memories around vCoh. I can think of a TON of things that drove me crazy about that game.
9 Oct 2015, 23:04 PM
#52
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2015, 23:00 PMMortar


Agreed.

There is a lot of "rose colored" memories around vCoh. I can think of a TON of things that drove me crazy about that game.

But you don't need to mention most of them when you can just mention snipers
9 Oct 2015, 23:26 PM
#53
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

I think CoH2 is better. It sure deserves a good shot. At first, as any experience with some previous expectation, you'll have some odd feeling about this or that unit, the commanders, so on. After a few games, maybe some 5-10 hours of online gaming, you'll get the hang of it and then it will come to you, if you like it or not.

I still play CoH1, basically for challenges with a schooltime friend, but, seriously:

- Every time I'm walking my troops around, I'm thinking "why the hell this game doesn't have True Sight?"
- Every time I'm trying to cut some ways, I remember "garden, no vaulting"
- Every time a bloody combat takes place, I have to remember that every unit must be reinforced separately
- I use the sniper a lot, the said friend sometimes has extreme difficulty with the counter - that wouldn't be so easy in CoH2
- I hate the buying vet mechanism of vCoH, it's so lame

EDIT: typo
10 Oct 2015, 00:04 AM
#54
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2



you mean Ami or Yoink saying "will he go BARs or M8" like a million times?

depth is depth but the vcoh depth didn't do much for strategy variety in SNF4. extremely great season but in terms of variety of strategies deployed, it was same as SNF5's con spam vs. gren spam.

I don't remember specifically what happened in season 5 but I remember m3allems Angoville strategy, SiberianPlatoon's unorthodox play on Semois going left instead of center with a early med bunker and building every tier. I remember Aimstrong's VVSM T2 T3 terror, his 3 engineer rifles sticky triage anti PE strategy, Fir3balls getting 8-9 T1 units, Magpies FHQ volk spam, 5 pio T2, Tommy + Aimstrongs T1 support strat (vs Brits), DevM winning early game vs other elite player using good Jeep micro, Nosliw's AC tank destroyer strat, KoreanArmy's 3 rifles grenades M8 strat, 4ES, 4ES Rax, Silence's T17 spam, Dr Horse using Calliopes in a GR tournament finals, Sandlands base rush strats, and more. Maybe COH2 has had that many viable strats since Jun 2013, but coh1 had that in ONE PATCH.

The coh2 patch that produced the most viable ways to play one faction in 1v1 was probably when Soviets had OP T70, OP Shocktroops, OP HTD, OP Ram, or Guard Motor (2 years ago).
10 Oct 2015, 01:23 AM
#55
avatar of glaucousNoise

Posts: 9


I don't remember specifically what happened in season 5 but I remember m3allems Angoville strategy, SiberianPlatoon's unorthodox play on Semois going left instead of center with a early med bunker and building every tier. I remember Aimstrong's VVSM T2 T3 terror, his 3 engineer rifles sticky triage anti PE strategy, Fir3balls getting 8-9 T1 units, Magpies FHQ volk spam, 5 pio T2, Tommy + Aimstrongs T1 support strat (vs Brits), DevM winning early game vs other elite player using good Jeep micro, Nosliw's AC tank destroyer strat, KoreanArmy's 3 rifles grenades M8 strat, 4ES, 4ES Rax, Silence's T17 spam, Dr Horse using Calliopes in a GR tournament finals, Sandlands base rush strats, and more. Maybe COH2 has had that many viable strats since Jun 2013, but coh1 had that in ONE PATCH.

The coh2 patch that produced the most viable ways to play one faction in 1v1 was probably when Soviets had OP T70, OP Shocktroops, OP HTD, OP Ram, or Guard Motor (2 years ago).

<444>3 <444>3

so many good memories, so sad to hear that Coh2 doesn't live up to its predecessor.
10 Oct 2015, 02:53 AM
#56
avatar of The Red Death

Posts: 133

This game is an absolute mess compared to the first one. Every time they release a new patch, you have to rewrite your strategy since they change things and it ruins the game since you have to constantly update what you do. I enjoyed winning on Scheldt over and over because my strategy was amazing but in this game there is no strategy. Just build a ton of units and rush people while spamming indirect fire. It's a complete joke.
10 Oct 2015, 04:48 AM
#57
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2


I don't remember specifically what happened in season 5 but I remember m3allems Angoville strategy, SiberianPlatoon's unorthodox play on Semois going left instead of center with a early med bunker and building every tier. I remember Aimstrong's VVSM T2 T3 terror, his 3 engineer rifles sticky triage anti PE strategy, Fir3balls getting 8-9 T1 units, Magpies FHQ volk spam, 5 pio T2, Tommy + Aimstrongs T1 support strat (vs Brits), DevM winning early game vs other elite player using good Jeep micro, Nosliw's AC tank destroyer strat, KoreanArmy's 3 rifles grenades M8 strat, 4ES, 4ES Rax, Silence's T17 spam, Dr Horse using Calliopes in a GR tournament finals, Sandlands base rush strats, and more. Maybe COH2 has had that many viable strats since Jun 2013, but coh1 had that in ONE PATCH.

The coh2 patch that produced the most viable ways to play one faction in 1v1 was probably when Soviets had OP T70, OP Shocktroops, OP HTD, OP Ram, or Guard Motor (2 years ago).


was that all in the matches which COH2.ORG youtube channel uploaded about SNF4?

I trust you are right. Now I never played coh1 competitively but were those strat in that last coh1 patch that everybody heralds as the great patch? 2.7023042130123 whatever the hell it is?

in OCF broadcast, I saw just as much of variety as how many strat you pointed out. and a hella more from good players if you count casts from imperial dane, atr3uh, computer heat, tight rope, machine and his buddy, ami, devils brigade and on and on and on.
10 Oct 2015, 05:19 AM
#58
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559


<444>3 <444>3

so many good memories, so sad to hear that Coh2 doesn't live up to its predecessor.


Listen, I've watched this thread get essentially dominated by Basilone's posts. Parts of what he has written is true but the majority of what he writes is simply his opinion (and wrong IMHO).

Try the game. Make up your own mind. That's the only way to really know how it compares for you, because I can tell you Basilone's opinions are nowhere close to mine or most of the playerbase of Coh2.

But don't trust me... simply take a look at his post history going back over the months to see what he and others have said in response. It's eye opening.
10 Oct 2015, 05:20 AM
#59
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

I would rather eat my own pudding than play this game right now.

Their are times when coh2 is fun to play and comparable to coh1, but then relic just go full retard and fuck it up...
10 Oct 2015, 05:43 AM
#60
avatar of Werw0lf

Posts: 121

COH2 has its vociferous afficionados. I'm not one of them, try as I might to want to love it. If it weren't for its WWII constume and inducement as a COH's successor, as an RTS it'd rate a major sales fail IMV.

CoH2 is broken and unfixable. It is a clickfest. CoH isn't. This is the primary underlying 'just something I can't quite put my finger on' reason people who loved COH don't enjoy COH2.

As is apparent, CoH was left broken to coerce its user base to migrate to the new money spinner, CoH2. That didn't go according to plan. Broken as it is, CoH is just more fun to play than COH2.

CoH2's raison detre is selling DLC for SEGA/Relic and it shows.
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