British Anvil Churchill, and my thoughts.

Jump back to quoted post3 Oct 2015, 23:26 PMDullahan

Nothing should be fucking limited except perhaps elite super units like the Tiger Ace.

It's such a shitty way to balance things.

Jump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 06:08 AMMuxsus

I believe axis players are just not used to dealing with very durable tanks, and they'll get used to it in time, just like they got used to the Quad (which Relic handled perfectly). It's probably too early to call for massive nerfs, but personally I think the fuel cost should be raised slightly, considering how the Churchill has bad AT and a cruel manpower cost.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2015, 19:33 PMTech4417

Solution(s)/Thoughts:
The Churchill is a heavy, though not call in, it is a heavy, lets emplace a limit on that as well, one at a time, per player(Like the call in theory),

Jump back to quoted post3 Oct 2015, 02:20 AMmalecite

Are you kidding me?

The 200/50 tech cost is equivalent to what ostheer pay to get to T4, how in the hell is that supposed to be some kind of martydom for the British?

On top of that they also get FREE ultra engineers that magically gain LMG's and 2 armor, making them more durable than shocks. With double brens these guys are fucking terminators and if they hit vet 3, which is relatively easy to do, they have a reinforce cost of 13MP. They have the long range dps of an ober squad and cost half as much.

So not only does getting the anvil specialization get you the ultimate tank, it gets you the cheapest, and one of the most effective infantry squads in the game. For kicks they even get a -50% reload time in cover. Put them in a building and watch as an entire army can't dig them out.

There is no fucking reason the churchhill should have 1600H and not be put in the same class as a heavy tank. For christ's sake a Tiger only has just over a 1000 and the KT has 1280. Give it a slight price decrease and up its armor while dropping its HP to something that isn't in the realm of insanity. being able to take 10 shots from a panther or AT gun is way over the top and basically makes the tank immortal in the hands of a competent player.

No unit should be able to hardcounter units that are designed to hardcounter it, that's just shitty balance.

Jump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 09:59 AMhannibalbarcajr

I just spent half a day playing in team games as only Brits and soviets and the Brits have a great late game to be sure but they lack big in a couple areas that would need to be improved if they were nerfed elsewhere. Brits have no mobile mortar or support gun to knock out AT and MG walls. The mortar pit is very expensive and can't move with you plus gets bombarded to death my light artillery fire. No flame thrower infantry to flame out garrisons plus the grenade isn't that good and if you do tech grenades then you delay your first tank another minute which is when the Brits start to catch up.

Also, when royal engineers become heavy engineers they cost 22 man power to reinforce. I noticed that in last game I played.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2015, 19:33 PMTech4417

This is not a whine thread, so no one get all uppity over this, this is my observation thats all, with hopefully a few suggestions in terms of balance/meta, and I am unbiased as you will see in this post. As always, as long as they are not biased or claims of OP, all comments are welcome, as well as opinions.

So as we all know, the Brits have 2 divergent final tech upgrades, the Hammer(Comet), or the Anvil(Churchill), my main problem comes with the Churchill, this unit is very cheap, and in 2v2 and up games, very much able to be produced in huge numbers, to me this is not so much balance, as it is an issue in the Meta(Maybe balance but idk?), from my play the game delves back into what Relic had tried to reduce heavy tank play/reliance by implementing a heavy limit to call ins, which has worked out great thus far, with the Brits we can see as many as three Churchills in a game depending on duration, map control, and the tactics the other team employs(such as saving fuel and playing infantry and AT gun heavy play). This is again, somewhat bringing the meta back to heavy tank reliance for the Brits ONLY.

Solution(s)/Thoughts:
The Churchill is a heavy, though not call in, it is a heavy, lets emplace a limit on that as well, one at a time, per player(Like the call in theory), this will employ players to use the tank in its more suitable role, of being a damage sponge, while using Firefly's behind it as the dmg dealer(This rule would also apply, to the King Tiger as well, with being allowed one at a time, not multiples, don't worry). This would again influence more combined arms play. The Comet in my opinion is not a heavy tank, to me it fits more of a medium style role and would be exempt from this limit, as well as the fact that is does have a much much higher cost than the Churchill, but does perform better in almost all roles it has.

Another idea would be to increase the Churchills cost, the reason behind this is simply its not as expensive to build, therefore you can get multiples with some degree of ease, but I don't think that is AS reasonable as the limitations on it, seeing as its AT performance is no where near worthy of a cost increase.

Conclusion:
Simply put, I was enjoying the expansion of combined arms play prior to the Brits, this had the made game rather stagnant, seeing as I play both sides of the game as an Axis(Mostly), and Allies(Whenver I can) the strategies get rather predictable with the Brits, if you see Anvil engineers, expect multiple Churchills at some point possibly(Not including a call in Churchill), I would just like to see this added so people would be encouraged to use the Cromwells and their speed for flanking, or Firefly’s using the Churchill as a sheild to soak up damage as they take down the enemy armor ahead. Thanks for reading, and any of your thoughts and feedback you may give.

Cheers,
Tech

Jump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 10:15 AMNuclear Arbitor

the HP is the only way to make churchills durable against axis late game without giving it elefant/JT level of armour because of the way pen works. the churhill is pretty much fine as is; certainly durability wise.

Jump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 10:15 AMNuclear Arbitor

the HP is the only way to make churchills durable against axis late game without giving it elefant/JT level of armour because of the way pen works. the churhill is pretty much fine as is; certainly durability wise.

Jump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 13:45 PMatouba

Yes the brumbar really need 1600HP. They need that high helthpool to make it more durable against allies TD.Just like the churchill.

Jump back to quoted post5 Oct 2015, 13:56 PMKubelecer

Yes the super scary allied 80 range 320 dmg tank destroyers

oh wait

Jump back to quoted post4 Oct 2015, 17:12 PMmalecite

There is a difference between "durable tanks" and the churchill. The panther is a "durable tank" with 800HP, the tiger is a durable tank with 1080 Hp.

The churchill is ridiculous with 1600Hp because it is basically unkillable and a crutch for shitty players with poor micro to be rewarded with vet anyways. Again one is fine, its when you start to see a bunch of them that you simply cannot do enough damage to them before everything you have is toast.

There is no "learning how to deal" with a tank that can take 10 hits from your tank destroyers and AT guns all the while grenading your AT gun and simply outlasting/focusing down your TD's.