Relic FYI, UKF's emplacements are useless due to ISG's

I too think that the emplacements should be a bit more useful...

how about perhaps instead of brace completely making the emplacement inactive.. is it possible to have the emplacement fire considerably slower, so it can still at least have some effectiveness and not be made useless? and if needed compensate by lowering dmg reduction?

like maybe slow fire rate by 50%-75%.. i mean it would alleviate the issue of volks coming in with incend so easily on the bofors at least..

I love the rage when something counter alllied stuff, and they cannot just chill and camp on VPs to win, so funny every time
Easy mode with brits is ending, face that, Lelic took Your money at first, now they will balance it

It actually does good damage against heavy tanks. just check in it cheat mode. I have noticed that in auto match, and did a quick check in cheat mode to make sure, if u don't feel like checking it here is the replay i did a quick check

http://www.coh2.org/replay/41994/test-replay

no worries, u can even kill heavies with ISG

Relic's secret campaign to find the weapon that would turn the war around has come to an end.
The champ is here :
http://prntscr.com/8m5lvb

i tell thee: childish behavior due to immaturity

"mommy, this doesn't the work the way i want it to! ill throw it in the trash" *throws-a-tantrum*

Glorious Ad Hominem. Why bother being constructive and having a discussion when you can result to name calling! Not Childish at all.


I agree 1000% though, just like I predicted Relic overnerfed the Brits into mid game uselessness as well. Soon they'll nerf the Churchils and Centaurs and they'll die as a faction. R.I.P. UKF

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

No, it won't kill ISG that's wrong. Because ISG outranges the mortar pit and kills it at ease. If their ranges were similar would have been more fair, but no, ISG kills mortar pit without receiving any damage.

I was under the impression the mortar pit and the ISG have the same range until ISG gets vet 1.

Part of the problem with the ISG vs mortar pit matchup is that the ISG is often sitting next to a medic truck, so any damage it takes from model losses can be replaced pretty easily. The pit on the other hand has to be repaired by engies who will get hit by the ISG as well. I think there's a penalty for squads that are building/repairing isn't there?

Add in that the pit is a much larger target and you're basically relying on rng wiping out 3 out of the 4 isg crew quicker than they can be replaced. Sure the isg will bleed, but the pit will be dead.

I love the rage when something counter alllied stuff, and they cannot just chill and camp on VPs to win, so funny every time
Easy mode with brits is ending, face that, Lelic took Your money at first, now they will balance it

Funny how you mention camping the VPs, thats generally a well used german tactic that happens almost everygame.

Playing Brits is far from an easy win. It might've been easy win in the early stages of the alpha, but now it is a micro heavy and difficult faction to play, but rewards you when you get the hang of it. You should try playing them against an Axis player who knows what he is doing. You struggle the entire game until late game, where if your unit preservation is good, you'll be able to keep up fairly well.

The ISG is way too powered at the time being. As Alladin said, it's a very low risk extremely high reward cheap unit, that can sit half the map away and reduce every faction to rubble. I tried stealing two ISGs once; they REKT'ed the opposing team something fierce. The fact that this hasn't been hot-fixed is a mystery and not very professional. The worst part about this unit is not that it is breaking the game or that it's OP: it's that it makes the game boring and not fun at all. CoH2 is an awesome game, I f'''ing love it, but right now the meta is terrible and no fun at all. I tried out the ISG with some buddies a week ago, and I didn't even feel rewarded when I had them, I just felt like a cheeser.

"But Pack Howies" some would say, that's a different story, it's more expensive, it's arrival is later, it has to be micro'ed a lot, It has shorter range, a worse barrage, and way easier to decrew and counter, removing the pin from this unit would put it in a good spot, while only removing the pin from the ISG will make it be game breaking still.

Anyway, the solution is to make the barrage cooldown way longer and more inaccurate, like the pack howie, give it a shorter range and make it more vunerable, then the unit would be fine, so you can't just sit at the flak HQ and bombard most of the map.

Or my personal favorite, make it a direct fire unit with a barrage ability that fires indirectly. That would be really cool, give it a cone, so it's like an AI "AT Gun". This way It would really be an Infantry Support Gun. The cooldown would have to be significant, but with this option you could keep it's stats pretty much as they are, except for the range of course ^^

Glorious Ad Hominem. Why bother being constructive and having a discussion when you can result to name calling! Not Childish at all.


I agree 1000% though, just like I predicted Relic overnerfed the Brits into mid game uselessness as well. Soon they'll nerf the Churchils and Centaurs and they'll die as a faction. R.I.P. UKF

"just remove them" is so common and not constructive at all. if pointing that out is an ad hominem, hell, ill gladly be the culprit here. as i mentioned before this wasnt directed at aladdin, but rather at a way of "dealing" with problematic untis in general.
why not leave the unit as it is until it can be adressed? i doubt its one of the biggest balance concerns at the moment.
and there are ways to deal with it other than removing emplacements. play around with brace/emplacement durability (make it easier to decrew so it bleeds MP, but make it more durable), maybe give the mortar pit a decent barrage cooldown or even a counterbarrage (since compared to mortars and isgs it is immobile), give it a slightly higher range (once again its immobile so at least it should outrange other indirect fire options).
but yeah that took me like 30 secs to come up with and with a little diligence one should be able to come up with proper solutions (other than removal)
if on the otherhand you just dont like emplacements, just say so. then removing it would be a solution indeed

For starters, a faction with zero indirect fire units is bad design (USF and OKW say hi). Brits don't even have medium indirect fire, so you have to rely on Mortars at least.

But the current state of Brace is BS. They should use Target Tables for emplacements. The problem is not only ISG spam.

These are my humble opinions on how to tweak Emplacements(Keep in mind that I don't have Brits):
-Huge HP pool
-Greatly reduce received damage from light artillery (mortars) even without BRACE.
-Slightly reduce received damage from medium artillery (ISG) without BRACE, and greatly reduce it when BRACED
-Heavy artillery (LeFH) pieces should do "decent" amount of damage, when BRACED. Heavy arty should hard counter a defensive position (90% reduction for heavy arty is ridiculous)
-Infantry held anti garrison weapons (Flamers and nades) should do decent damage when BRACED.
-Non-High Explosive ballistic weapons (Panther, JagdPz) should not counter BRACED structures.

With these changes, they can make brace a toggle ability with a small cooldown (10-15)

Just my 2 cents.

"just remove them" is so common and not constructive at all. if pointing that out is an ad hominem, hell, ill gladly be the culprit here. as i mentioned before this wasnt directed at aladdin, but rather at a way of "dealing" with problematic untis in general.
why not leave the unit as it is until it can be adressed? i doubt its one of the biggest balance concerns at the moment.
and there are ways to deal with it other than removing emplacements. play around with brace/emplacement durability (make it easier to decrew so it bleeds MP, but make it more durable), maybe give the mortar pit a decent barrage cooldown or even a counterbarrage (since compared to mortars and isgs it is immobile), give it a slightly higher range (once again its immobile so at least it should outrange other indirect fire options).
but yeah that took me like 30 secs to come up with and with a little diligence one should be able to come up with proper solutions (other than removal)
if on the otherhand you just dont like emplacements, just say so. then removing it would be a solution indeed

dude chill out!!! what's wrong with you that can't read "kappa"!!! the problem is ur low IQ that can't understand I was being sarcastic...

Current state of emplacements is terrible.

Before brace nerf it was hard to kill, yes, but it was easy to counter.
You did not need to kill it, to counter it.

One ISG/Mortar shooting at it was perfect counter.

Your mortar did not get any kills (shooting at emplacement) but on the other hand you forced emplacement to be on brace mode all the time so no kill for them.
It was simple and very good solution in my opinion.

1 unit shuting down another it perfect way.

Currently it's terrible.
No one will spend 400MP for immobile mortars which die fairly quickly once brace is down.

Bofors? Again, 1 mortar is enough to put it in brace mode.

It's like taking 3 units from Brits (that 17 pounder pop cap) which leaves them without mortars, mid game unit to hold the ground and without famous 17p.

Current early-mid game is dying.

No flamers to clear buildings (WASP will help until 222), no SMGs, no assaut rifles, no mortars, no smoke, no nades, no mid game unit to hold the ground (222, flamenwerfer, Stug E; 251/17, Puma, Luchs; Stuart, AA truck; Quad, T70).

This hole should be filled by Bofors or Armored Car but both are useless in current state, which leads us to desperate rush for Centaur because there is no other way to hold in front of HMGs and LMGs.

What's more, it's not like you can afford 400MP mortar pit

I'm still amazed how 2 mortars covered by sandbags, which cannot retreat are losing to 2 mortars on the open field, without any special cover

They should be hard to deal when using tanks or mortars, fairly easy when using late game arty like railway and very easy to infantry as a reward for getting so close.

+1 pretty much Brits are unplayable right now.

They nerfed the wasp to hell that was brits only early game surival attack tool. Now the flamer does almost no dmg and the carrier never really did any dmg what so ever without vickers or flamer.

IS are only good in cover and cannot really attack by themselves so many times early game there just useless unless your on a map with a lot of cover. Houses don't really work now cause of volks new grenade which rapes IS in or out of buildings. Not to mention the leig wiping your costly MP IS and making emplacements useless.

Other than 6 pounder they have no early AT. Piats are worthless against any player who has half a brain.

Sniper gets wiped by lieg and does not have steal body armor like ost sniper.

Against decent axis player I see no way you survive long enough to get to the centuar and when you do its counters are already there or you've lost soo much map control its GG. 3v3 and 4v4 are the only mode I find brits viable atm but it is a bit like your team is playing a man down the first half of the game.

I love the rage when something counter alllied stuff, and they cannot just chill and camp on VPs to win, so funny every time
Easy mode with brits is ending, face that, Lelic took Your money at first, now they will balance it

You must be mildy retarded. Chill and camp vps sounds like OKW truck camping I dunno if we are playing the same game because even when you could 24/7 brace a bofos it couldn't fire why doing so and was not that hard to take out. OKW flak truck is like 10 times harder to take out and almost gaurantees 1/3 map control most the game or 0 fuel harassment from the enemy team leaving you to only have to focus the remaining 2 parts of the map. Sure they might lost it eventually but not until the damage is already done from the area denial and the game is late enough it does not matter as much if they lose 1 truck. Camping vps has always been an axis thing especially on choke point maps.

dude chill out!!! what's wrong with you that can't read "kappa"!!! the problem is ur low IQ that can't understand I was being sarcastic...

lol. l2read. i wrote: "as i mentioned before this wasnt directed at aladdin, but rather at a way of "dealing" with problematic units in general."
your IQ must be off the charts. below the bottom line that is

back on topic: i myself dont think emplacements fit into this game at all. the ones that are okay are long range on map howies. but if they want to keep them (which i guess they will, cause its one of the "cool features" that were meant to make the brits attractive), they need to find a way to make them viable, but not too strong, which is hard, considering that emplacements are static and therefore dont really fit well into an RTS game, that requires lots of movement and good positioning

I agree with some of the comments here though - that if you are forced to use fixed emplacements, they should be much more resilient to anything apart from direct artillery hits (i.e. splash damage should be ineffective) as that is rather the point of building an emplacement.

I have never been a big fan of fixed emplacement units that cost pop cap (same with CoH). I would prefer it if the emplacements could be dismantled for a portion of the cost returned and (more importantly) the pop cap back. Seeing as you can only use them defensively due to the speed that they can be destroyed by flames and arty, if you are winning you end up with them being useless behind the front line but still costing you a lot to have.

I have never been a bit fan of fixed emplacement units that cost pop cap (same with CoH). I would prefer it if the emplacements could be dismantled for a portion of the cost returned and (more importantly) the pop cap back. Seeing as you can only use them defensively due to the speed that they can be destroyed by flames and arty, if you are successful you end up with them being useless behind the front line but costing you a lot to have.

I agree with some of the comments here though - that the point of building an emplacement is to provide more cover - apart from heavy arty or nades thrown from enemy troops they should be pretty well protected from most other attacks.

maybe one way to fix them would be:

-build empty emplacements for MP and a little fuel (bofor/17pounder)

-they would need a squad inside of them to operate at all. squad cannot shoot out of it while operating it. maybe the squad would have to be at a minimum of 2-3 models (no snipers/1 man squads operating a 17pounder)

-said squad would get building cover (flames and some aoe weapons would be good to clear or dmg the squad inside = bleed)

-the emplacement itself would be very tough.

-they will take additional popcap while being operated (so its not free pop cap wise), but once the squad leaves the emplacement the pop cap returns back to 0. OR make them cost very little pop cap even if empty. they still need a squad to operate it, you know

-maybe some cooldowns before operating/leaving the emplacement would be required to avoid emplacement hopping

edit: they should only be useable by enemy inf if you could destroy them remotly while being empty
(unless you'd like to see falls/JLI/stormtroopers in every game where brits use emplacements)

TL;DR brit emplacements should work similar to usf vehicles

Interesting concept, not sure if bad or good, but i'm afraid it won't be implemented as it's basically a nightmare to balance at this point.

So ISG needs a nerf because it kills units without you having to do anything.

Emplacements need a buff so it can kill units without you having to do anything.

I know that's out of content but it seems odd to complain about ISG requiring little micro and getting kills while also wanting something that requires little micro and gets kills to become more valid.

Personally I just think emplacements are a boring game play mechanic. If they are strong, balanced or not they are boring to play against and using them is just as boring. Would rather just see brit mortar removed and replaced with a similar but mobile unit.

I felt like Brace was overnerfed in the preview Mod and was glad when they at least lowered the cooldown to what it is now but it still feels too long. Too many things require you to brace and any follow-up attacks are too effective. I'd like to see Brace have no cooldown but have decreasing effectiveness if used back-to-back or if an emplacement stays under sustained fire. Another option would be if Brace was more effective in allied territory- it would discourage you from abusing Bofors too much. Really Bofors + Brace was the only big problem with Brace I think...

17 Pounder is also too expensive fuel and popcap wise IMO - I hardly ever see them used in 1s and 2s... don't know about larger games.

Relic toning down ISG wouldn't hurt either.

Just changing mortar emplacements to be mobile with a somewhat significant set-up (dig in) and/or pack-up time would be a welcome change for me. They would be sturdier that Sov/Ost mortars when set-up and have better firepower but at the cost of time to set up and being vulnerable when not dug in.

Shouldn't be in the game.

Give Brits a mortar team weapon. Remove bofors as well, still hate the thing with every cell in my body after its abusive code a patch back

was it commash who suggested emplacements to be uncountered by light arty but countered by direct assault and heavy arty.

+1 000 000 to that