OCF recap thoughts

I won't deny Ami's ability to build hype and lure in new players to the scene. But if you look at other (albeit professional) casters, like the ones employed by Riot during official LoL tournaments, they are on point at building LOTS of hype pre-game and post-game, while maintaining a certain, acceptable level of excitement during the game while not missing the play-by-play nor the strategies each team employs.

What I don't like about Ami's casting is his "pre-game hype" leaks into the action when things start happening, for some reason he is still building hype when it's unnecessary. Do it before the game and during early game while the guys are still building up. Don't do it during.

My second issue is he seems to overpower his co-casters and strongarms them into doing things which makes things really uncomfortable to watch. (Like I said before, Disclaimer*: Outsider's Perspective) Once again, LoL pro casters sync with one another, they jab at each other and make jokes, but it's not so tasteless like how Ami does it. ("HEY! Hey Luvnest! Pronounce this! You can't? *giggle*") If he can joke around without making his co-casters audibly uncomfortable, that would be a huge +

I hate 2 things really:
1) This tourney forced players to play non stop, without any normal breaks. This is pure BS. VonIvan is already said that. I forget nickname of the guy, who was stomped by DevM USF in first 5 mins, but rifle rush and cut off, but it is best example really.

Don't think the refs had it any better. We felt the pinch as well, and we (the referees and tournament organizers) pretty much unanimously agreed that if such a large crowd came again, the tournament would be made over two days. The only thing that kept us from making that decision (which we all would have loved to do) was the uncertainty of the patch release date. We had no idea when the patch would hit (since they advertised it at the 21st or 22nd, and the next day of the qualifiers would have been the 21st), and having the qualifiers over two different game versions is not a good idea, especially for people who played and got knocked out before the patch hit ("Oh, if I'd played as Brits, I so would have won! No fair!" and all that jazz).

Sure DevM is better then him, but really this dude showed great 1 hour game, he play really nicely and watching how he gets stomped like a scrub in first 15 mins is BS to be honest. Sure DevM could be better, but watching how top (who rested btw) player raping tired unknown guy who managed to get almost to the grand finale, is crap. And during all of this we hear crying Ami who screams "WOW LOOK AT THIS BEST USF PLAYER LOOK AT HIM". To be honest, I was really pissed off.

I will repeat my self. DevM could be better player, but hell, give his opponent f*cking time to rest, he already played few hours of hard games, and now you throw him vs top player. This is basically free win.

DevM was actually eager to get the games on. As the Grand Finals match organizer, DevM kept on bugging me to see if they could play the next game. He was hardly tired - the only break he wanted was in between the Loser's Bracket Finals and the Grand Finals (which was given, and he came back by his own choice about 10 minutes later). Ask DevM and he'll say the same thing. No assumptions, please.

2) Last grand finale game was pure example of RNG of shitty balance. Aimstong lost simply because his sniper was counter-sniped by DevM sniper. So super game was basically lost in first 5 mins. You got counter sniped? Well GG for you, you wont be able to make a comeback if your opponent would play safely.

Uh, really? I don't usually comment on balance, but how is a Sniper RNG? It's probably the unit with the least RNG in the entire game. The rules are simple - one shot, one kill. Predicable rate of fire. End of story.

Yeah I agree, he almost bullies his co-casters in that sense, which I don't like. They are obviously very uncomfortable with it, and I don't know if he can't pick it up or he's fueled by his own hype, but he keeps going with it unrelentingly. I feel bad for whoever co-casts with him. The finisher is, he knows his faults, but he's stubbornly refusing to change, almost to the point of saltiness. I got that feeling from him casting the grand finals when he would bemoan that he's "not allowed" to zoom in and take away from the action, but does so anyway. Okay, that's enough from me. I've already veered too off-topic as it is.

It's not off topic at all.

I really appreciate the work Ami put into the tournament, I really do. But the man is an ATROCIOUS caster. Naming snipers, going on and on about Luvnest selling sex toys out of a house on Arnhem Checkpoint, decals, camos, trees, LITERALLY EVERYTHING BUT THE MATCH. And that isn't even going into the whole bullying Luvnest deal.

Again, I really appreciate the work he put into the tournament, I love the enthusiasm and devotion to the community and game. But Ami, please do not ever cast a match again unless you're going to, you know, actually cast the match.

My only complaint was the qualification event.. It was far too burdening for many people to play 6! rounds in one day..

I won't deny Ami's ability to build hype and lure in new players to the scene. But if you look at other (albeit professional) casters, like the ones employed by Riot during official LoL tournaments, they are on point at building LOTS of hype pre-game and post-game, while maintaining a certain, acceptable level of excitement during the game while not missing the play-by-play nor the strategies each team employs.

What I don't like about Ami's casting is his "pre-game hype" leaks into the action when things start happening, for some reason he is still building hype when it's unnecessary. Do it before the game and during early game while the guys are still building up. Don't do it during.

My second issue is he seems to overpower his co-casters and strongarms them into doing things which makes things really uncomfortable to watch. (Like I said before, Disclaimer*: Outsider's Perspective) Once again, LoL pro casters sync with one another, they jab at each other and make jokes, but it's not so tasteless like how Ami does it. ("HEY! Hey Luvnest! Pronounce this! You can't? *giggle*") If he can joke around without making his co-casters audibly uncomfortable, that would be a huge +

that is highly subjective.

i think it is unfair to bundle that together with an actual more objective argument like "we need/want more play by play".

anyway, Ami's casts are my favourite casts. As a person who actually know of coh2, I don't need narration of every little thing. I watch everything coh2.org puts like always while i get tired of all the other casters.

There is a right way and a wrong way to be entertaining. Ami does the wrong way.

You want a caster who managed to be extremely entertaining while actually doing his job, go check out VonIvan's cast of OMGPOP and Luvnest.

Great casting but the scrub-mentality from the coh2 pros was a disappointment. Got beaten way to easily in their own backyard. Wtf are we watching in streams? Time to up your game pros.

There is a right way and a wrong way to be entertaining. Ami does the wrong way.

You want a caster who managed to be extremely entertaining while actually doing his job, go check out VonIvan's cast of OMGPOP and Luvnest.

Ami is entertaining and makes things relatable, and obviously he appeals to a relatively larger audience. Not everything needs to be tailored to fit the needs of "pro players" such as yourself.


On a side note, I'm getting tired of people who are literally incapable of doing anything other than complaining. Never productive, just bitter. OCF was a huge success from my perspective, thanks to all the staff who put in the effort.

I still don`t get how naming a house in the game and checking out trees brings the game to the masses and to be more e-sporty.

I am fine if he explains/ask what units beats what or who has the chance to win an engagement. But man I am sick of his constant random zoom ins and random stories.... Lets take dota2 casters for example (since Ami is comparing their tournaments with coh2 tourneys) or even LoL casters during the tournament. They are excited on every epic moment, they make question to a co-caster about situations and their opinions although they already know the answer themselfs due to experience of casting so many games or playing themself. But they still know the actual game they just do that to help out people who don`t get what is happening. I don`t see them start random stories during a freaking game or zooming on a Bloodseeker or Vayne during the game just to check out their skins.... You have time for that after the game finished.

Thanks Pigsoup.

I think if this thread is to remain constructive, it would be helpful if we move off the Casters and onto other aspects of crowd funding and how to use it in the big tourneys, for after all, we based the tourney on it. Powered by You. I applaud all the contributors and site members who supported the events.

First, should we set a limit on the strech goals, or just let the goals run out steam, as we did at the end? If you think a limit should be set, what would that be?

Second, the Qualifiers. Some suggest we should revert to the old qualification system under SNF, spread over several weekends. The problem with crowd funding here, however, may be that some donate because they hope their own favourite player will make it through. In other words, if a favourite or two got knocked out early on a longer tourney, this could adversely affect the crowd funding side of it. Further, if we spread a crowd funded tourney over several weeks, it could seem as if we trying to milk the system, which was not the intention. Thoughts on this, either way, please?

Third, the sign-ups, closely followed by the Qualification bouts on Sunday have raised several issues. Should we limit the number of players to say, 256? If we did, what to do in the hypothetical situation where,say the first 256 posters were mostly new and one post only? Should we charge a registration fee, to deter those who really have no intention of turning up? (We had almost 600 who signed for this tourney - drop out rate approx 50%). Or should we have a two tier registration system, for the more experienced players? Bear in mind that the advertising from Relic considerably boosted numbers who registered to play.

Some have suggested that we spread the Qualification bout over 2 days, to assimilate all the players and cut the number of games each day...I assume they mean we should play as many people who register to play - views please. We certainly need to do something.

When you discuss this aspect, however, please bear in mind that if we have a full qualifying weekend, and then a second full weekend for the Finals, we are asking Casters and Staff (including Referees) to make themselves available for 2 full weekends... and that may not be possible

In this context, further constructive suggestions are more than welcome.

If anyone's interested in the "exciting" parts of my cast, or the whole cast itself, here's the VOD I have until each game has been uploaded onto youtube per request of some people.
http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/v/17903973?t=1h21m0s
Disclaimer: I am not a professional caster, I just cast in a more relaxed setting and show the people how the game plays out from a CoH2 veteran's point of view.
Just to compare to OCF casts. Not trying to downplay other casters, they did good. Just giving a different point of view.

Uh, really? I don't usually comment on balance, but how is a Sniper RNG? It's probably the unit with the least RNG in the entire game. The rules are simple - one shot, one kill. Predicable rate of fire. End of story.

Aimstong sniper was at maximal range AND on retreat and DevM axis sniper still managed to kill him. Only british sniper has like 100% chance of killing retreating troops if there is no terrain block, while Ost sniper has quite low chances of killing retreating squads\units.

Thanks Pigsoup.

I think if this thread is to remain constructive, it would be helpful if we move off the Casters and onto other aspects of crowd funding and how to use it in the big tourneys, for after all, we based the tourney on it. Powered by You. I applaud all the contributors and site members who supported the events.

First, should we set a limit on the strech goals, or just let the goals run out steam, as we did at the end? If you think a limit should be set, what would that be?

There should be no limit to a stretch goal, but new goals should be added asap the previous goal was reached. Also they should be more useful to everyone, for example someone eating soap shouldn`t even be a stretch goal. Also stuff for casters shouldn`t be added to a stretch goal as it benefits a small amount of the community (20~) people is my guess. In game skins, decals, etc is a good thing, wallpapers as well. Most of the stretch goals during OCF have no meaning whatsoever, but this is understandable since it was the first time that something like this happened.

Second, the Qualifiers. Some suggest we should revert to the old qualification system under SNF, spread over several weekends. The problem with crowd funding here, however, may be that some donate because they hope their own favourite player will make it through. In other words, if a favourite or two got knocked out early on a longer tourney, this could adversely affect the crowd funding side of it. Further, if we spread a crowd funded tourney over several weeks, it could seem as if we trying to milk the system, which was not the intention. Thoughts on this, either way, please?

You should not base the event on the money if people want their favorite to get money they can always donate to him as someone did for Siberian yesterday, kuddos to that person
People should fund for the benefits it will give them, "shiny" and for great games. If you don`t mention it every 5 minutes it will not sound like you are milking for money, just show people what they will get for contributing to the event this should be enough, again useful stretch goal prizes...

Third, the sign-ups, closely followed by the Qualification bouts on Sunday have raised several issues. Should we limit the number of players to say, 256? If we did, what to do in the hypothetical situation where,say the first 256 posters were mostly new and one post only? Should we charge a registration fee, to deter those who really have no intention of turning up? (We had almost 600 who signed for this tourney - drop out rate approx 50%). Or should we have a two tier registration system, for the more experienced players? Bear in mind that the advertising from Relic considerably boosted numbers who registered to play.

Don`t limit the signups just open them like a month earlier and close them 1 week before the event so you can have time to sort everything out without fock ups.... I think people didn`t show up because of the date and time as well as the amount of games they were supposed to play in 1 day.

Some have suggested that we spread the Qualification bout over 2 days, to assimilate all the players and cut the number of games each day...I assume they mean we should play as many people who register to play - views please. We certainly need to do something.

This depends on the amount of sign-ups, imho no one should be forced to play more than 3 games a day and it should be at times that they are okay with, remember time zones.

When you discuss this aspect, however, please bear in mind that if we have a full qualifying weekend, and then a second full weekend for the Finals, we are asking Casters and Staff (including Referees) to make themselves available for 2 full weekends... and that may not be possible

Then find replacement casters? There is no need to cast every single game. Have some referees watch replays of the players in quali and find people who have a potential to show amazing games. Notify casters that this guy has what it takes you should cast him and this guy although he won was kinda meh... This way casters can cast favorites when they are playing against someone good without the need to cast 3-5 minute stomp games against non-experienced players and if there is a potential in some other player they can cast his game too. In any case each match must have at least 2 casters, solo casting is not for everyone.

+1 to VonIvan for somehow making the most sense in this thread despite using 9 separate Nicholas Cage gifs.

LOL. Finally all those GIFs have a use.

Well, I could not watch all games, and I'm sad that I missed a couple of good games. Thank everyone.

On a side note, I'm really really curious about what happened in the end, talks about chat and bad mouthing and now people are getting banned? Anyway, I'm waiting for the next tourny. Way to go guys.

Aimstong sniper was at maximal range AND on retreat and DevM axis sniper still managed to kill him. Only british sniper has like 100% chance of killing retreating troops if there is no terrain block, while Ost sniper has quite low chances of killing retreating squads\units.

that was incredibly surprising to see... didn't know Brit sniper had diffrent odds of killing retreating soldiers. In vCOH i believe it was 50% for both snipers to hit retreating units unless the targets were vet 2+ grens i think due to armor change.

I wish there had been less sniper play since it is so risk/reward and often leads to game being over very soon becuase of a player losing a sniper and getting pushed off completely or getting squads wiped when a sniper picks of last member a few times. If a sniper makes it all teh way to the late game the odds of that player winning are very high just due to MP drain. At least sniper mechanics are better than they were in vCOH with its cloaking anywhere BS.

1. On the issue of coh1 vs coh2: This is unimportant. COH1 may have been great, it may have been shit. This doesn't help with this discussion.

2. I agree with the idea of spreading out open qualifications more, but I think that it's logistically difficult to organize a bunch of people, casters, and referees over the course of multiple weeks as opposed to just one day. Maybe doing best of 1s over the course of a week, with replays sent in would be better. And then, we can do the best of 3's qualifying games over 1 or 2 days. I think that would be much more effective than the current system. This would limit the obligation of casters and referees to 2 weeks, but allow players doing best-of-1s to have more flexibility.

For registration logistics, I wouldn't be opposed to a registration fee of like $1 or $2 for non-contributors, in order to make sure people show up, and to help grow the prize pool.

3. Ya'll are hating on Ami so much. I love Ami, he always gets me excited about games. I started really getting into the Company of Heroes series when I watched Dane, and AMI SNF videos. I actually love how he names houses and snipers, I think it makes things more entertaining/exciting. I think that he synergizes really well with Ciez and Romeo, who are more analytical.

4. I think the best of 5 format for finals is fine; the winner of the Upper bracket gets huge advantages early on to compensate for not being able to drop.

5. For people defending the invite system; I just don't think that there's a benefit to having 1/3 of the tournament being invited in. I think it's possible that some of them maybe have been knocked out in open quals, and all it really does is give them an advantage, and decrease the competitiveness of the tournament.

that was incredibly surprising to see... didn't know Brit sniper had diffrent odds of killing retreating soldiers. In vCOH i believe it was 50% for both snipers to hit retreating units unless the targets were vet 2+ grens i think due to armor change.

I wish there had been less sniper play since it is so risk/reward and often leads to game being over very soon becuase of a player losing a sniper and getting pushed off completely or getting squads wiped when a sniper picks of last member a few times. If a sniper makes it all teh way to the late game the odds of that player winning are very high just due to MP drain. At least sniper mechanics are better than they were in vCOH with its cloaking anywhere BS.

They forgot to put the normal accuracy modifiers against basically everything on the British sniper. He has perfect accuracy versus retreating units and units in buildings. (Basically the unit is bugged)

Again, this highlights that Brits should have not been allowed in the tournament at all, OR it should have been delayed significantly to allow Relic to fix this shit, like the shear amount of bugs is staggering and I keep adding to my list each day. I know the OCF organizers were between a rock and a hard place but I still don't think it's smart to hand out thousands of dollars when so much is currently broken.

I really miss the good players like Sepha and GermanSupreme. I enjoy coh2 but coh1s in game ladder did make it very competitive.

Coh2 top players are ok but nothing compared to the likes of Nystrom, Koda chrome and heroiccompany

COH1 had its fair share of salt. We had our own SPrice's and Paula's, even our own Barton, wait... WE ACTUALLY HAD BARTON. People abused all kinds of shit and the game had some really huge F-ups just like COH2, no actually worse.

The big differences here is COH1 was a replay based game for the community, we didn't have streams until the extreme tail end of COH1. COH2 is based around the streamers and the Twitch.TV world and frankly people are uglier in a chatroom than a moderated forum.

Until now COH2 had no real competitive tournament with enough cash to lure the pure competitive players in. Most successful RTS's have a consistent enough competitive scene to keep these types of players active in the game and not just show up for the tournaments but COH2 was not built for e-sports from day 1. We're slowly getting it closer but it's still nowhere near other RTS's for competition.

COH1 guys have said for ages that the new breed of COH2 top players don't compare to what we had in COH1. COH2 guys are mad about it because their hero's lost to COH1 veterans (who were unknown to them for the most part) who jumped out of the shadows and grabbed the cash. The real sad reality is the game alone isn't enough to keep the competition alive in any consistent fashion in its current state. COH1 was fiercely competitive compared to COH2 and mostly because it was setup for it from the beginning since for 2006 it had a killer in game UI and ladder. We're now in 2015 and COH2 has no In-Game ladders, hell not even In-Game level's like we had in COH1. Of course we're not going to draw in the most competitive players!

Most likely things will go back to normal in short order and the same players will keep playing and the players who were AFK will probably leave again.

Thanks to all who participated. Watching this tourny brought back a lot of memories and I hope we can heat up the competition as much in the future.