Churchills HP (1400-1600) over the top

The Churchill is a good tank right now. It is designed to survive the fight with a sliver of health. What you are experiencing is frustration caused by this mechanic. This is a common mechanic also used by Axis vehicles which thrive on this kind of "almost there, almost there, almost there..." gameplay.

While I do agree the Croc feels stupid, it is a very late game tank. It is designed to give the brits the ability to control AT gun spam because they have limited indirect fire. If a player has a balanced army the Croc is a threat, but doable. Its destruction is quite significant for the Brit player as well.

As Ost I find myself drawn more and more to the Stug, and as OKW I find the JPIV amazing in every game vs. Brits. Use AT guns to support your tanks instead of using them to primarily target the tanks. This will force Churchills into very uncomfortable positions.

Mines are truly amazing against them. They move slow, with a mine they move even slower. Also crew repairs drops smoke on the map anyone can see. You should always know where he is repairing in those cases.

Long and short, if a Churchill of any type is expected you need to get armor! Do not rely on infantry and AT guns to kill it, they can only stop it. You should also consider using tank traps (if you have them) and arty. Wait for the Churchill to seek repairs then arty the tank. Wiping engineers and keeping it out of the fight longer means that he is going to be fighting without any tank support for a long time.

Finally, Elephants and JT still hard counter these units. If your opponent invests in these super units you can too. Stall him until you unlock the heavy TD's and then let him get close. Don't fire until he is well within range. No manner of smoke is going to save him then. Even if he pops his own smoke just attack ground well behind the tank. In the elephant hit him with a TWP. His hard tank will be in all sorts of trouble. You can even go ST and hit his Churchill when it pushes in. He won't be able to dodge it and he will get all sorts of interesting crits. Another option is to get the CmdPanther, 50% bonus damage will eat through his extra health in just 3 or 4 shots, making him retreat before he has had time to do much damage. The Panther can also get in a couple of hits at low risk and continue to vet. KT's also do a number on Churchills since they have longer range and tons of armor. They always land the first shot and can just sit and slug it out. The Churchill also will have a heck of a time getting away since they are both amazingly slow.

Lots of tools in the bag. Difference is a perception not a reality problem.

I believe farts have more lethal aoe radios then brit tank nades

Not to mention they are kind of obvious, short ranged, impractical, slow and like to missfire.

I was being facetious.

I only do it in 4v4, it would seem like certain death in a 1v1

Perhaps it would be easier to give all factions a infantry and a tank mine. Ostheer style (except without those goddamn signs which tells people where the mines are.

It helped me saving lots of units because I wanted to flank a squad but I noticed the signs quickly enough.

That would be nice. I've always wondered what relic was thinking with those freaking signs. Maybe because the S-mines cover so much ground compared t other mines. Either way it's a terrible design to have signs announcing mine presence to the enemy.

Eitherway retreating units don't mind signs

I feel like its fine. It's slow, has a lower rate of fire, gimped pen and average AOE. Its entire purpose is to soak up damage, and for the most part thats all it does. A slight fuel increase may be in order but thats it.

Can my tiger tank also soak up that much dmg for it's cost?

that depends, can the churchill get blitz, 50 range, more speed and better AI ?

2 different units, in 2 different factions fulfilling 2 different roles. Dumb comparison.

It was sarcastic.

Here's a free tip for you > Get a StuG III and be amazed.
#Churchill is fine.

160 fuel Brumbar with 800HP, while 150 fuel Churchill with 1600HP. Relic you make me just lol.

I know the hand of stug still I needb3 to make him flee

I feel like its fine. It's slow, has a lower rate of fire, gimped pen and average AOE. Its entire purpose is to soak up damage, and for the most part thats all it does. A slight fuel increase may be in order but thats it.

Brumbar is slow too, it has only half HP of the Churchill, but 10 more fuel cost than Churchill.And you feel it's fine then?

The stock Churchill HP should be decreased to 1280, and cost increased to 180 fuel. Yes it really needs a heavy nerf. Churchill spam ruined late team games. Just no fun to play against the Churchill spam.

Can my tiger tank also soak up that much dmg for it's cost?

Well, that depends how much speed, range, AoE, scatter and penetration you want to give up for that

Or put it to max 1 per kind. Same has to be applied to the KT

Defending the Churchill makes no sense because not only does it come with the tier that allows you to have the fastest cheapest repairs in the game thus totally negating the whole "just mine it/snare it!" thing but the Churchill itself is so easy to preserve if your not braindead that once you hit Vet 3 you don't even need to worry about snares.

The idea that it's totally fine because the Jadgtiger and Elefant exist is also so comically insane because not only then are you forced into 1 or 2 doctrines when fighting the British, you need to invest in the case of Ostheer twice the fuel the enemy did and in the case of OKW 3-4 times the fuel the enemy did.

Just put Churchill's at 1080 health and 300 armor. It makes no sense at all for them to have more health than 260/245 fuel tanks. It will still have amazing vet, and it will still come with the most durable infantry in the game.

It is bullshit that a piece of junk tank as the churchill is more tanky than a King Tiger... but hey relic gotta make some money on the new army...

Weel, you can have the shittiest micro and come out of on top,because of its durability. :|
And it regularly penetrates panthers frontal armor.

This is definatley somehow wrong, because of all the commanders wich don't have the 43 / ele /jagtiger / etc. in it you have to rely on something that needs 10x more micro to defend against any Churchill.
A panther feels like a puma in these situations, one mistake and its gone.Because after you've successfully flanked a churchill you face probably an other good at option which UKF has. -.-

Weel, you can have the shittiest micro and come out of on top,because of its durability. :|
And it regularly penetrates panthers frontal armor.

This is definatley somehow wrong, because of all the commanders wich don't have the 43 / ele /jagtiger / etc. in it you have to rely on something that needs 10x more micro to defend against any Churchill.
A panther feels like a puma in these situations, one mistake and its gone.Because after you've successfully flanked a churchill you face probably an other good at option which UKF has. -.-

105/120/135 penetration is not regularly penetrating panther front armor.

The game is build around certain Damage values and health pools.
Churchills break this rules, you can not cost effectively counter churchills. They are too cheap for the hp pool and power they provide.
You need far more popcap to counter them than they take and honestly I don't get still why they have more HP than 230+ fuel super units.

My thoughts on this:

CROC / AVRE -> down to 1080 hp (Tiger, IS2) from 1400 hp
Normal churchill -> down to 1280 hp (King Tiger) from 1600 hp.