Royal Engineer as starting unit

I do realize the current starting unit of an Infantry section is a throwback to the original Brits, especially how you can't build engineers until tier 2.

However personally, I'd like to see Brits start with a repair squad, you still can't build them until tier 2 but if you start with one you can get those early repairs on the Bren for example or use the destroy cover, although the destroy cover underused, can make a bigger difference in the early game denying cover compared to the early-mid when they normally come out. You may disagree but the fact that you still won't be able to build them until tier 2 will keep what one of the things COH is known for, Unit preservation.

Some positives to have Engineers as the starting unit.
- Lower upkeep unit compared to Infantry sections
- Support unit to be used with Infantry section
- Cover destroying ability, once again showing themselves as a support unit
- Although rare to see extreme early mines, but can have the ability to sweep them
- Their repair ability, will help in team games or going Bren
- Will be able to get to vet 3 before normal engineers (due early time on the field)
- Vet 3 reinforce cost
- Possible earlier Bofors (due to not having to build Engineers, just got to tech to Bofors)

Some negatives
- Lower firepower at the start of the game (due to them playing more of a support role)
- Early Bren repairs without the Bren vet 1 ability may be OP, testing would need to be done
- Opponent may think you're already at tech 2 a few minuets in, when you're not (not really a negative, but hey it sorta is)
- Possible earlier Bofors (due to not having to build Engineers, just got to tech to Bofors)

Anyway this is not an instant buff to Brits, but it isn't an instant nerf, I will admit I couldn't think of many nerfs compared to buffs, but what do you guys think? and also anymore positives and negatives go for it and mention them.



*Edit*
Bumped and consider the state of Brits now. (This was written when they first came out)

I do realize the current starting unit of an Infantry section is a throwback to the original Brits, especially how you can't build them until tier 2.

However personally, I'd like to see Brits start with a repair squad, you still can't build them until tier 2 but if you start with one you can get those early repairs on the Bren for example or use the destroy cover, although the destroy cover underused, can make a bigger difference in the early game denying cover compared to the early-mid when they normally come out. You may disagree but the face that you still won't be able to build them until tier 2 will keep what one of the things COH is known for, Unit preservation.

Some positives to have Engineers as the starting unit.
- Lower upkeep unit compared to Infantry sections
- Support unit to be used with Infantry section
- Cover destroying ability, once again showing themselves as a support unit
- Although rare to see extreme early mines, but can have the ability to sweep them
- Their repair ability, will help in team games or going Bren
- Will be able to get to vet 3 before normal engineers (due early time on the field)
- Vet 3 reinforce cost
- Possible earlier Bofors (due to not having to build Engineers, just got to tech to Bofors)

Some negatives
- Lower firepower at the start of the game (due to them playing more of a support role)
- Early Bren repairs without the Bren vet 1 ability may be OP, testing would need to be done
- Opponent may think you're already at tech 2 a few minuets in, when you're not (not really a negative, but hey it sorta is)
- Possible earlier Bofors (due to not having to build Engineers, just got to tech to Bofors)

Anyway this is not an instant buff to Brits, but it isn't an instant nerf, I will admit I couldn't think of many nerfs compared to buffs, but what do you guys think? and also anymore positives and negatives go for it and mention them.

If they did this, then they would HAVE to make sure they toned down brit late game too...

Currently the only saving grace vs brits is the fact they are MP starved at the start and take time to get going.

Doing this would be like having a Soviet start with an OKW endgame.


Personally i think the better work-around is to decrease inf section cost to 260, and reinforce cost to 30. And maybe verrryyy slightly tone down the damage, (to reflect the new price).

Well you do have to consider the Brits will be down and Infantry section in the early game, if a Brit player likes to have three Infantry sections, at the moment he only has to build two, with these change he will have to build three, yes he will have an extra unit on the field in the form of an engineer squad (meaning more capping potential, more combat potential when pulling off flanks etc)

also consider like I said before if a Brit player likes to have three Infantry sections on the field, he has to build an extra now, meaning Tier 2 is now delayed by around a minute or two depending on the Brits MP bleed, this extra minute or two can be a massive advantage to the Axis player, and if done right can cripple and delay the British tier 3.

But think of it like this, you're losing a core unit in exchange for a support unit. while the trade-off is really faster repairs for your team and Bren, and in 1v1 the team repairs is useless for obvious reasons, and not everyone is going to build a Bren meaning one of the biggest parts of having Engineers as the starting unit is gone competently.

bump

Bump, I want to see everyone opinion

I like muh infantry sections

I agree OP. Royal Engineer starts would be useless.

I don't think they'll be useless, it will just be a slight tweak to the Brits early game for a start.

Second of all COH is know for it's unit preservation, have a unit available that you can't build until you tech can be a help a player help preserve this unit as it's a risk (lose this unit and can't get a replacement for it until you tech)

And as I mentioned cutting down a core unit by one, will lead to a Brit player having too build an extra Infantry section, delaying tech due to manpower, or having to skip an Infantry section, which will lead to having the same field presents, but having a reduced combat presents (Engineers combat performance vs Infantry sections)


Useless I wouldn't call it that, is it a nerf? yes is it a buff? yes in someways, more of a twerk.

I mistyped, sorry lol. I do agree with you, I meant that all things considered IS starts are useless.

i like it.

Brit T2 comes at like 3 minutes. I disagree.

personally i like to have repairs available when vehicles are. idk if this is the way to do it but it is one option.

Universal Carrier can self-repair at vet1.

Yes it require vet1 first, but we're not exactly talking about the game's worst T0 vehicle, either. That alone justifies keeping Infantry Section as starting unit.

OP also forgets that Infantry Section is the one that builds caches. That might not be important in a 1v1 PvP, but that's still a point worth making.


Overall I think the idea merits a try through a mod, is it possible to change starting unit to a different one through mods?

I do agree with your points, it issue with the topic is the fact that it has some nerfs and buffs to the early Brits in 1v1 and the same deal to allies in team games, so a mod would be a good way to test the balance.

Although alot of people the Royal Engineers have that destroy cover ability, the early the Engineer squad comes out, the more useful the ability will be (in higher end play imo) due to the fact of denying early cover, but still be more of a gimmick.

Overall they're to many buff and nerfs to just make a change without further testing. So a mod and Relic seeing this is probably the best idea.

Well considering every other faction starts off with engineers, might as well. I know Brits are trying to be "unique" or similar to VCoH, but I think early engineers wouldn't be a bad idea.

Against it, having the ability to remove cover as soon as the game starts is a little bit strong. To deny cover everyone else has to start rolling out wire, but you throw down a free charge and it's gone.

I like this idea, would still be unique as they couldn't be replaced until t2. Could also provide some other opening options if the Vickers upgrade for the carrier was given some love.

i think Royal Engineer need little more balance. i mean the price of royal engineer and tommies should swap or royal engineer to 320 and tommies to 240, because royal engineer is very effective in close range can fight strum pioneers with around 50-50 chance.

Against it, having the ability to remove cover as soon as the game starts is a little bit strong. To deny cover everyone else has to start rolling out wire, but you throw down a free charge and it's gone.

A reasonable point, but what if Destroy Cover also got changed to require a Platoon Command Post?

Bump