Stormtroopers - Ostheer's Orphans

Hey there guys.

Just got out of a game where I played Encirclement Doctrine for giggles. Luckily the dude I was playing against decided that Penal spam into M5 into T-34 was a good idea, and lost the game quite promptly. I had time, however, to grab out a Stormtrooper squad, grab them their STGs, and get them up to Vet 3 with 803% efficiency.

However, using these Stormtroopers, I was struck by how weird and seemingly out of place they are. They have no real defined role, they're just kinda...there. They have a great STG upgrade and an okay Shrek upgrade, but I still feel like they've been left behind with the leaps and bounds the game has made since Encirclement was introduced. They're specialists, this much is true, but, could they be reworked and given some love to be given a more defined purpose? Especially with Partisans(their rough equivalent), getting some attention recently, I thought it might pay to have a bit of a review of Ostheer's strange specialists.

Personally, I'd love to see them get more utility(demo charges, mine laying, ability to do an AA Rangers swap between Pshrecks and their original weaponry, that sort of thing) in exchange for a cost increase to fulfill a role similar to Commandos, but hopefully without the uber-suppressed-special-forces-chris-kyle-callofduty-spraydown-instawipes that categorized the glory days of the 'Mandos.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

I will reuse my answer from the last time this came up.

They have a definite roll, harass and decap back territories, particularly in the late game to be used in conjunction with the stuka dive bomb and the tank decap ability to activate close the pocket. If the doctrine did not have the "Kill everything for 200 munitions" button, then I could see an argument for buffing.

They're utility is in this sneaky harassment, then once you have to retreat them, you upgrade them so they have some battlefield utility.

Definitely would like to more love to them. Right now, i see no reason to use them compared to PGs who start off with STGs.

Their StGs need a cost reduction when Obers can get some to mostly ignore cover at a much cheaper cost.

Changing vet 1 to something else that would actually work with their behind-enemy-lines role would be great too. Faster decapping at vet 1 sound good?

How assault rifles are implemented is just a huge fail. Assault rifles lose almost all dps if they move so assaulting with assault rifles is the worst you can do. Also they are always a 4 man squad with poor survivability. 1 model drops always in an instant, thus losing 25% of their potential dps.

pgrens and stormtroopers need an armor buff and the shrek needs a fucking nerf. In vcoh shreks required some positioning to actually land hits, in coh2 shreks almost always hits no matter the distance.

lelic

Their StGs need a cost reduction when Obers can get some to mostly ignore cover at a much cheaper cost.

Don't Obers' IR MP44 only provide 2x weapons? At current 60 munitions cost that's just 30 munitions, compared to Stormtroopers' 4x MP44x at 100. That makes the latter's cost (plus ability unlock) actually cheaper, albeit at a measly 5 munitions since 25 munitions per weapon for Stormtroopers.

IMO Storms should ahve just gone for regular G43s and gain the tactical advance ability straight on, whereas the MP44s is the Infrared one.

Don't Obers' IR MP44 only provide 2x weapons? At current 60 munitions cost that's just 30 munitions, compared to Stormtroopers' 4x MP44x at 100. That makes the latter's cost (plus ability unlock) actually cheaper, albeit at a measly 5 munitions since 25 munitions per weapon for Stormtroopers.

They also have higher DPS and bonuses vs enemies in Cover.

Stormtroopers should start with Ober Kar98's, and the StG's reduced to 75 Munitions or buffed.

They should either be Ostheer's JLI and have sniping abilities (perhaps 2 sniper rifles instead of 1?) and some actual good disruption abilities like booby trap point, or mines, or demo's or something to make them have some appeal other than for just completing a cut off.

They are the only building deployment unit that has to upgrade to it's weapons after being deployed, it's vet is also worse than Pgren vet for very nebulous reasons.

I made a thread about this before September patch, and it didn't get enough attention... anyway.

When partisans get proper weapons and ambush camo, there is no reason that this unit has to stay in this pathetic state. At least, mp cost is unacceptable.

Don't Obers' IR MP44 only provide 2x weapons? At current 60 munitions cost that's just 30 munitions, compared to Stormtroopers' 4x MP44x at 100. That makes the latter's cost (plus ability unlock) actually cheaper, albeit at a measly 5 munitions since 25 munitions per weapon for Stormtroopers.

IMO Storms should ahve just gone for regular G43s and gain the tactical advance ability straight on, whereas the MP44s is the Infrared one.

True, and the Storms' will give them superior DPS at the desired range, but there are caveats to that:
1) More DPS is in each squad member for Storms than the StG Obers, the first two losses will absolutely destroy Storms' total DPS while it would barely dent the Obers.
2) Obers' StGs mostly ignore cover.
3) Obers' StGs are less penalized on the move (better burst duration by 0.125 and accuracy multiplier by 0.15).

So, Storms' has better potential DPS and Tactical Advance, while Obers' is cheaper, better on the move, more resilient to losses in combat, and mostly ignores cover. Thus, I think Obers' version is a little bit ahead by comparison and Storms' version could stand to be just a bit cheaper to make it feel equal.

Pretty much everything said in this thread thus far is flat out incorrect.

Stormtroopers more or less have the raw DPS and received accuracy of Pgrens with the reinforcement cost of a grenadier. Their Tactical Advance ability is one of the highest DPS abilities in the game, although it should ideally be used stationary and not on the move.

They're one of the most powerful, high DPS, and most importantly manpower efficient units in the game.

Stop thinking about the munition cost as a penalty. Instead consider that you are converting munitions to manpower by creating a very efficient squad.

I will reuse my answer from the last time this came up.

They have a definite roll, harass and decap back territories, particularly in the late game to be used in conjunction with the stuka dive bomb and the tank decap ability to activate close the pocket. If the doctrine did not have the "Kill everything for 200 munitions" button, then I could see an argument for buffing.

They're utility is in this sneaky harassment, then once you have to retreat them, you upgrade them so they have some battlefield utility.

That makes them no different than Partisans, though, is the thing. They can harass and decap back territories for nearly half the cost. (Yes I know that Stormtroopers can be way better in combat but I'm just replying to this specific argument.)

stormtroopers are fine. Its only problem is that it's in a very niche doctrine.

Both the kv-2 and the stormtroop will benefit greatly from being in a more conventional doctrine.

That makes them no different than Partisans, though, is the thing. They can harass and decap back territories for nearly half the cost. (Yes I know that Stormtroopers can be way better in combat but I'm just replying to this specific argument.)

When Partisans decap a back territory they don't come with the risk of having your whole army wiped.

Well, maybe they do right now

Bump. I suggest reducing the StG cost to 70 munitions and giving them an unique 4x MP-40 package at the beginning.