Air Supremacy is just completely OP

...umm... if this gets fixed despite the "opposition" may I request a change for the soviet bomber from tank hunters doctrine also? Same effect on OKW deployed truck.

Stuka dive bomb can kill multiple units easily and is pretty cheap considering there is 0 smoke / mini map marker and hits pretty quickly. Sure this one can do a lot of damage but its also really easy for it to do very little damage to units and vehicles, since you have such a longer time to remove stuff from the area.

The problem is that it just outclasses literally all other anti-emplacement artillery in the game. USF Mech Artillery takes 2 uses to kill 1 truck, that's 360 munitions. Time on Target takes 2, that's 360 munitions again. USF major artillery takes like 4 so that's 480. Stuka Bombing Strike can't even kill 1 Emplacement in 1 hit.

How can you look at that and actually come to the conclusion that it's totally okay to do that kind of damage for only 325 munitions. So are we going to reduce the price of IL-2 bombing run to 100 munitions because your only doing about 1/3 of the damage of Air Supremacy? Like I literally have a replay posted in this thread of Air Supremacy killing two of trucks and I guess were going to gloss over it to defend this blatantly broken ability for the next 20 pages.


Just because you can actually still win despite something doesn't mean it's not broken. Although I'm kind of wondering what exactly what people here won't defend to the death despite both Axis factions dipping into the negative win rates in 1v1 and 2v2.

well i see nothing broken here, so whats next????
for the reasons below i dont find it OP

1)Its expencive(costs 325 munitions)
2)has a long delay and a warning like other callin(should you ignore them and stay in the area prepare to lose staff)
3)it comes late (12cp)
4)it doesnt cover a vrey large part of the map
5)cant be called in base sector
6)it doesnt wipe heavy tanks nor wipes all OKW trucks should they all be within range of the callin


for those reasons its ok and if you REALLY NEED to compare it to something then do it with the Walking Stuka,it doesnt give a warning of smoke,its deadly accurate,wipes FULL HEALTH Squads and its a tech unit

...umm... if this gets fixed despite the "opposition" may I request a change for the soviet bomber from tank hunters doctrine also? Same effect on OKW deployed truck.

Yes, I'm sure that offmap that is unable to kill 640hp tank will kill truck with over twice that hp

You make vetlolcake proud father.

I find it as a fair trade of for securing your cut off/fuel points by Schwerer.

I mean, what is disadvantage of making frontline Schwerer which keeps at bay almost everything with no micro, no attention, while you push your enemy's fuel?

It provides damn unfair advantage through mid-early-late game so I see nothing wrong with erase button for, holy crap, 325 ammo.

Ah, It appears the problem may be that the ability has 2 extra accurate tactical bomber planes.....both of which are marked on the map has HE111's? I don't really know whats going on with this ability because it's code is a mess and Iv been testing it and it's been giving me 3 inaccurate bombers and 2 accurate ones in game.

Code:

| | | | | | | aircraft_squad_name: "tactical_bombers";
| | | | | | | attack_info: {
| | | | | | | | attack_sway_frequency: 1f;
| | | | | | | | attack_sway_width: 1f;
| | | | | | | | attacks_per_aircraft: 1;
| | | | | | | | delay_between_attack: 1f;
| | | | | | | | initial_attack_delay: 0f;
| | | | | | | | target_attack_distance: 100f;
| | | | | | | | target_attack_time_sec: 2.125f;
| | | | | | | | target_lead_in_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | target_lead_out_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | loiter_info: {
| | | | | | | | 0x200C8104: 0f;
| | | | | | | | 0x5543314C: true;
| | | | | | | | 0x6651A0F5: false;
| | | | | | | | 0xB01F66E7: 0f;
| | | | | | | | follow_target: false;
| | | | | | | | loiter_area_radius: 50f;
| | | | | | | | loiter_time_sec: 0f;
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | number_aircraft: 3;
| | | | | | | random_direction: false;
| | | | | | | search_attack_target: false;
| | | | | | | source_offset_x: 1f;
| | | | | | | source_offset_y: 1f;
| | | | | | | source_offset_z: 1f;
| | | | | | | target_info: {
| | | | | | | | $REF: "type_ability_target_type\is_position.lua";
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_maximum: 1f;
| | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_minimum: 1f;
| | | | | | | use_long_path: false;

| | | | | | | | | aircraft_squad_name: "tactical_bombers_accurate";
| | | | | | | | | attack_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | attack_sway_frequency: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | attack_sway_width: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | attacks_per_aircraft: 1;
| | | | | | | | | | delay_between_attack: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | initial_attack_delay: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_attack_distance: 100f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_attack_time_sec: 2.125f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_lead_in_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_lead_out_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | loiter_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | 0x200C8104: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | 0x5543314C: true;
| | | | | | | | | | 0x6651A0F5: false;
| | | | | | | | | | 0xB01F66E7: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | follow_target: false;
| | | | | | | | | | loiter_area_radius: 50f;
| | | | | | | | | | loiter_time_sec: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | number_aircraft: 2;
| | | | | | | | | random_direction: false;
| | | | | | | | | search_attack_target: false;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_x: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_y: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_z: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | target_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | $REF: "type_ability_target_type\is_position.lua";
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_maximum: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_minimum: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | use_long_path: false;

So that's 20 bombs from 5 bombers at 300 damage per bomb so 6000 damage. With 2 of the bombers accurately dropping all their bombs in a line.

So you get basically 2 perfect IL-2 bomb strikes accuracy wise on top of 3 saturation bomb drops, christ what was Relic thinking

I find it as a fair trade of for securing your cut off/fuel points by Schwerer.

I mean, what is disadvantage of making frontline Schwerer which keeps at bay almost everything with no micro, no attention, while you push your enemy's fuel?

It provides damn unfair advantage through mid-early-late game so I see nothing wrong with erase button for, holy crap, 325 ammo.

There's nothing unfair about the Schwer at all, I mean christ were 1.5 years out from WFA release and you still can't handle it?

if you read the very first sentence of the post you quoted you'd know how stupid your request for a replay sounds.

The replay you posted:

the "i win" button was hyperbole. replay, as requested:

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Apfelsaft Xystophoroi

  Korb! cr4wler

  If you say Brit's aint OP, watch this...

  by: Apfelsaft map: Minsk Pocket

  2

  -

Contains no use of AS.

You wrote:

not gonna go into it in detail... but they got outplayed over the entire game by their own admission, used 1 wide-ass ability on a narrow map that killed pretty much everything.

The replay shows no such ability. It ends for me at Minute 31 with them only at 8cp and the ability unused.. So once again, I ask for a replay that works that shows this.

I see a lot of players complaining but none of them are providing any evidence to this is the massive game changer they claim it to be. They also seem to be resorting to name calling and insults. If you can't formulate an argument, calling other people dumb doesn't make your claims any better, it makes it look worse. Initially I though this ability needed to be toned down, but you know what, if you a good player, this ability is not a big deal at all.

So Relic quite did literally just copy paste the ability from Urban Assault Doctrine.

Relic: This doctrine would be overpowered and broken if we released it

*12 months later*

Relic Manager: So Charles have you finished that doctrine we asked you to work on?

Relic Charles: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh *copy pastes Urban Defense* yeah...yeah it's done!

Relic Manager: Good Work Charles

The replay you posted:



Contains no use of AS.

You wrote:



The replay shows no such ability. It ends for me at Minute 31 with them only at 8cp and the ability unused.. So once again, I ask for a replay that works that shows this.

old patch. it contains AS.

i DEMAND you show me at least 10 000 replays that show that it isnt OP. you know, that being your claim and all...

but srsly, instead of all this "replay or it didnt happen" shit, how about ppl start using some common sense in these discussions? but with guys like katitof and alex, that fill the same role on opposite sides, just blindly defending OPness on one side and fighting on the other... i guess that is already too much to ask.

old patch. it contains AS.

i DEMAND you show me at least 10 000 replays that show that it isnt OP. you know, that being your claim and all...

but srsly, instead of all this "replay or it didnt happen" shit, how about ppl start using some common sense in these discussions? but with guys like katitof and alex, that fill the same role on opposite sides, just blindly defending OPness on one side and fighting on the other... i guess that is already too much to ask.

trying to avoid his request are you

common sence also tells this ability is fine,Australian Magic posted photos and you see literly that only 2/3 times the ability wipes one OKW base truck while the other 2 trucks survive the attack and theres also a chance the Truck bases all 3 of them to survive heavily damaged

trying to avoid his request are you

common sence also tells this ability is fine,Australian Magic posted photos and you see literly that only 2/3 times the ability wipes one OKW base truck while the other 2 trucks survive the attack and theres also a chance the Truck bases all 3 of them to survive heavily damaged

no, i obliged the request. not my fault the replay system for coh2 doesnt work with old replays.
and australian magic = katitof light. okw trucks btw are only half of the story.

old patch. it contains AS.

i DEMAND you show me at least 10 000 replays that show that it isnt OP. you know, that being your claim and all...

but srsly, instead of all this "replay or it didnt happen" shit, how about ppl start using some common sense in these discussions? but with guys like katitof and alex, that fill the same role on opposite sides, just blindly defending OPness on one side and fighting on the other... i guess that is already too much to ask.

I never claimed that it wasn't OP, please find exactly where I said that. I actually suggested to nerf it a bit in post #135 because most of the original complaint was that it could 1 shot okw trucks. I still stand by what I said about being able to avoid it with units and armour.

How about a reduced damage modifier for it vs OKW Trucks / Buildings in general then?.

I asked for replays showing you losing an entire army to it where it isn't a case of drag selecting and clicking some distance away.

A replay that I cannot see AS in contains no AS. Tough shit its an old replay that doesn't work but that is life. I can upload all my replays that don't show AS if you like? - does this prove its not killing stuff? No exactly as it doesn't show AS being used.

I am using common sense and my own experiences as well as those I have watched on streams. Matchmaking depending, I'm usually playing people with a decent amount of skill and who know one end of the keyboard from the other. My player card is public and some of my ranks are even displayed below my posts. I play the game pretty equally across all factions and have no allegiance to any of them. The majority of the people I play with and against can cope with moving units out of a marked area before 20 seconds has passed.

Also I wouldn't say either Alex or Katitof blindly defending "OPness". There are plenty of people around that do but at least these 2 have some clue about the game and in the case of Alex does have pretty high ranking with OKW. He also bothers to post replays (that work) and has a fairly good understanding of the game

I didn't lose this game, but the Ability killed 2 of my trucks. http://www.coh2.org/replay/41503/2v2-air-supremacy.

All I saw was the ability being used when you had decided to create a little sim city. Placing 3 trucks and 3 ISG's in a tight area. The placement of the Schwer was particularly weird because it should have gone up north to defend the fuel, but for some reason you decided to build it very close to an already set up truck. He also triggered AS during a battle which was intelligent so that you would have a higher micro requirement. You did forget to mention that you had already won the game by the time he got to it, one player dropped, and he never had the resources for upgrades all game as a result of it storing up for it so his troops could not hope to beat your men as the game dragged on. On top of that it came so late, that as I pointed out before, you had already built units from your tech structures and their loss was annoying but not exactly game breaking. Good ability yes, game deciding just for being called no.

Another discussion, but did not see you complaining about how OP the ISG was in the game which basically allowed your team to sit comfortably in mid and never move. The allies had no real counters to them because they don't unlock any real counters.

Target TABLES! Would be perfect in this situation.

The brit railway arty clone also one shots all trucks...But I think people are just focusing in on the AS because it makes a lot of noise.. Very easy to dodge though.

However, the brits still need a reliable way to clear out entrenched positions. They just don't have one.

So that's 20 bombs from 5 bombers at 300 damage per bomb so 6000 damage. With 2 of the bombers accurately dropping all their bombs in a line.

So you get basically 2 perfect IL-2 bomb strikes accuracy wise on top of 3 saturation bomb drops, christ what was Relic thinking

Wooow! And there are people who say that the ability is ok! Jesus Mary and Joseph. Like... No comment as at EuroNews.

But this post is ignored Alex, have no fear.

Yes, I'm sure that offmap that is unable to kill 640hp tank will kill truck with over twice that hp

You make vetlolcake proud father.

And I suppose it's ok in your vision. King of bias returns, episode 2. Starring: Katitof; Main character: Katitof; Director: Katitof; Screenplay: Katitof. In Katitof's role, kween Retchet.

By the way, where is he? He was banned...? Like... forever?

All I saw was the ability being used when you had decided to create a little sim city. Placing 3 trucks and 3 ISG's in a tight area. The placement of the Schwer was particularly weird because it should have gone up north to defend the fuel, but for some reason you decided to build it very close to an already set up truck. He also triggered AS during a battle which was intelligent so that you would have a higher micro requirement. You did forget to mention that you had already won the game by the time he got to it, one player dropped, and he never had the resources for upgrades all game as a result of it storing up for it so his troops could not hope to beat your men as the game dragged on. On top of that it came so late, that as I pointed out before, you had already built units from your tech structures and their loss was annoying but not exactly game breaking. Good ability yes, game deciding just for being called no.

Another discussion, but did not see you complaining about how OP the ISG was in the game which basically allowed your team to sit comfortably in mid and never move. The allies had no real counters to them because they don't unlock any real counters.

So are you just going to ignore that it does 6000 damage over an insanely large area or what. I didn't post the replay so you could complain about the LeiG. But I agree it should cost more.

Like this isn't again, a case of "Lets judge if this is OP or not", this is a case of the ability being bugged/broken.

Post #101 invisied for flaming.