Some thoughts on Sep 17th patch.

Riflemen buff, penal also want to love. sob sob

...

I'm not sure if this proves the point: been able to sustain 2 Churchill when the only AT is a JPIV and a single rak which gets kills when the 2nd Churchill appears.

Regarding the replay:
-Zoobee is the alt of some player?
-Questionable 3 SP opening, which backfired later on. It could had been worst if no missmicro on the Bren flamer.
-Centaur punish his build badly.
-12min+ zoobee starts to float munition. BADLY. Brens and Piat would had tilt the game. Still chance for both.
-Constant trade from snipers and Falls. SO MANY FALLS in this game.
-19: GG 400muni float He could had ended the game here
-23: small victory for Spanky and smart use of muni for Falls (since he was down really bad mp wise)
-30: either PIV or PV would had been better? Infantry wise he was doing fine. An extra rak at some point wouldn't had hurt. His JPIV + whatever tank would had contested a Cromwell and Churchill. Still anybodies game at this point.
-38: lost of vet2 rak. His only AT against 2 Churchills and Cromwell is a single JPIV
-40: miss micro with JPIV GG.

snip

Read above. You should really watch the replay.

"Spanky is noob" threads and posts incoming.

More like playing with a different build against "meta".

I can say Iv had some extremely infuriating matches against Churchills as OKW because they are just silly hard to kill and get away really easily. It doesn't help Heavy Engineers are so easy to sustain that you eventually just get crushed under a wave of tanks because they can repair twice as fast as you can for 1/2 the cost. The power of the 6 Pounder doesn't help either, as it's accuracy bonus totally negates the JPIV's small target size.

The Panther doesn't work because it's ROF it to low, PIV's sure as hell don't work because they can't get past it's frontal armor, and JPIV's have the same issue and get clowned out by 6 pounders.


I'm really honestly kinda at a loss for how to counter Churchill's.

I find it highly ironic that axis players would whine about the survivability of someone else's tanks

As if we haven't been dealing with P4s, panthers and tigers blitzing backwards at 20% HP + popping smoke for years now.

killing the normal heavy churchill in non maneuverable map feels like killing a KT.

except it comes earlier, more often and does not wipe half+ squads every shot.

feels ok, but i think it can use a limit of 1 maybe?

I find it highly ironic that axis players would whine about the survivability of someone else's tanks

As if we haven't been dealing with P4s, panthers and tigers blitzing backwards at 20% HP + popping smoke for years now.

I didn't know Tigers, Panthers, and PIV's had 1600 health, 280 frontal armor, while retaining excellent acceleration. Try playing some 1v1 and 2v2 Axis and see how much fun dealing with Churchills are.

I would love to see a single 1v1 or 2v2 game when anyone with actually decent rank on a decent game got more then 1 churchill and was able to afford, sustain and repair more then 1 at a time.

Seen it done a few times, the main reason is because it can deal alot of damage before it has to pull out, making the repair time worth it, and costless. + putting a firefly behind 2 churchills is a pretty nuts combo.

many good changes in the patch, but i am worried about the brace nerf and isg buff

My general thoughts are that no Axis faction has won a tournament since 5(?) patches, and its gonna only get worse.

feels ok, but i think it can use a limit of 1 maybe?

Ex fuckn' actly! Why not imit them to one FFS? All other heavy call ins are!

how op they are???

did you watched the replay???
if not you should

First what do you expect the jagdpanzer 4 to do?? solo churchills??

Second WHY RUSH A KING TIGER??

Third WHY NOT FOCUS THE AT GUNS???

Watched the reply of course otherwise I would have the decency to shut up, so back off.
How many tanks/TDs do you expect OKW build? How many it CAN build?
KT? Because it was the ONLY viable solution. What, you think spamming jagdpz4s (meaning build 2 of 'em - oh yeah, so manny) would have solve the problem? Churchills can damage any unit on the map, jagdpanzer can just damage tanks. Churchills can advance with absolutely no fear head on into jagdpanzer's line of fire. I'll tell you what will happen:
1. First shot - bounce
2. Second shot, penetrated, yes! Churchill is at 95% health. Wow, such a success.
3. Third shot penetrated, yes! Churchill is at 80% health, Pfff, what is Jagd shooting? Popcorns?
...and so on untill jagd gets flanked and destroyed.

In fact, a couple of churchills can advance against anything and mess the enemy lines. If we add some typhoons attack, is allready GG. Where in the history of coh2 axis could make a full scale attack with the heaviest of tanks and such powerfull air attacks?? There is absolutely NOTHING Spanky could have done.

You must be such a hardcore fanboy not being able to see that.

What I woud do? I would exclusively play one doctrine (uuuuh, such fun) meaning Fortification, I would build pak43s, jagdpanzer and KT and maybe (if brit arty doesn't dispose to quickly of my pak43s) I could win like this. Is the only chance I can currently see. And that's not ok.

Aham, ok, let's see:

-Questionable 3 SP opening, which backfired later on. It could had been worst if no missmicro on the Bren flamer.

He also built a raketen and had no luck with it. Because only luck could help there. And what would you have done? volks? with shrecks? Don't make me laugh. Almost every shreck shot miss the bren. But you wouldn't know that, would you?

-Centaur punish his build badly.

Centaur punish almost every build badly, fyi.

-Constant trade from snipers and Falls. SO MANY FALLS in this game.

Agree, to expensive infantry for brits infantry killing rate. I would never use that doctrine against brits.

-30: either PIV or PV would had been better? Infantry wise he was doing fine. An extra rak at some point wouldn't had hurt.

What??? PZ IV against brits? You ever played against brits, mate? Panther would have kinda' slowed badly his armor build. You ever played OKW mate? You ever met the fuel problem?

-38: lost of vet2 rak. His only AT against 2 Churchills and Cromwell is a single JPIV

...the fuel income..... what else he should have build? Another jagdpanzer? To shot one churchill and take 5-10% of its life at each shot (if penetrate)? Please.

-40: miss micro with JPIV GG.

I would like to see how good you would micro in that situation. You would probably micro perfectly and turn the tide of the game with a jagdpanzer and a KT against 2 churchills, one comet, 2 ATs and typhoons in the sky isn't it?

Read above. You should really watch the replay.

Did that and the right conclusions are far from your explanations. But I was not expecting you not to support allied even if they had nukes.

My general thoughts are that no Axis faction has won a tournament since 5(?) patches, and its gonna only get worse.

They should take into consideration W/L ratios in tournaments of the top players into account since that is probably the most homogeneous sample group as all players have to have good micro and faction knowledge at the top end to play both sides. I think axis are more weighted to team games and allies in general are at their best in 1v1 and 2v2

Riflemen buff, penal also want to love. sob sob

why isn't there any talk of improving them? They are rarely used and they are a welcome mix to monotonous conscript spamming. Alas, rifles get even buffer and even conscripts get a small survival boost at Vet 3 but penal troops are again the forgotten step child.

Here's another double Churchill, this time against Ostheer.

Ex fuckn' actly! Why not imit them to one FFS? All other heavy call ins are!

Except the regular Churchill isn't a call-in...

did the new patch go live yet?

did the new patch go live yet?

Yeah, I just downloaded it.

Yeah, I just downloaded it.

i got it too thanks! =)

why isn't there any talk of improving them? They are rarely used and they are a welcome mix to monotonous conscript spamming. Alas, rifles get even buffer and even conscripts get a small survival boost at Vet 3 but penal troops are again the forgotten step child.

I think its really a scaling problem with them - they could do with either better vet or maybe a weapon upgrade option (DP's?) when tier 3 is built or something