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Give Panzergrenadiers Toggle Panzerschreks Ability

12 Sep 2015, 19:26 PM
#21
avatar of Panzerschützen

Posts: 186

Well, I didn't know there were many guys happy with current meta of lmgrenadiers. I accept that it'd be a huge buff to Panzergrens but applying this option to all Bazooka,PIAT,PTRS equipped infantry would be wonderful.
12 Sep 2015, 19:34 PM
#22
avatar of Stafkeh
Patrion 14

Posts: 1006

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2015, 14:14 PMnewvan
Voted - no, it will encourage anti everything blob, like rangers in Ardens, especially with CAS. You just press one button to change its role, its poor gameplay and bad for balance for any type of unit. In current situation you must choose what you need at the field - good mid range AI, or trade it for best infantry based AT in the game, its quite fair.

Prioritize Vehicles - is a good idea.


^
12 Sep 2015, 19:36 PM
#23
avatar of newvan

Posts: 354

Well, I didn't know there were many guys happy with current meta of lmgrenadiers. I accept that it'd be a huge buff to Panzergrens but applying this option to all Bazooka,PIAT,PTRS equipped infantry would be wonderful.

It will be bad for any AT weapon, it's ruin basic principles of strategy game - rock/scissors/paper. This option will not change a thing about lmg grens, it just will make panzergren spam stupidly rewarding.
12 Sep 2015, 19:41 PM
#24
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Spam is bad yeah, but different kinds of spam are still spam.
12 Sep 2015, 19:43 PM
#25
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

I guess a prioritze vehicles for panzerschrecks could be in order, but definitely not a way for them to holster their panzerschrecks.

"Oh hey look, 3 standard panzergrens traveling on their own together towards my t34, easy kills" * suddenly all panzergrens pull up schrecks out of their ass and nuke the t34, and switch back to stgs to rape infantry*

Eh... NO.
12 Sep 2015, 19:45 PM
#26
avatar of SwonVIP
Donator 11

Posts: 640

sure why not... but it will not solve the LMG Gren only meta
12 Sep 2015, 20:19 PM
#27
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

yes, but you can only switch weapon in HQ.

otherwise the pzgren will become too flexible. The player must decide whether to use them in anti tank or anti-infantry mode.
12 Sep 2015, 20:43 PM
#28
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

The whole idea behind upgrades is that they are supposed to force the player to make decisions.

Do I want bazookas for more AT the expense of my squad's AI firepower?

Do I want smgs for more close range firepower at the expense of other ranges?

The problem in coh2 is that not enough upgrades have enough drawbacks. G43s and lmgs will always increase the dps of the squad at all ranges, which makes them brainless. There is literally no reason not to upgrade lmgs, besides opportunity costs (which all abilities and upgrades have).

The real issue is that coh2 is not consistent on forcing player choice. Lmgs have no drawback, but smgs will always make a squad lose firepower at other ranges. Anti-tank issues are currently one of the well designed upgrades that force you to make a choice between a great AI squad and a great AT squad. As a result, we artifical feel that some upgrades are underperforming in comparison to the more brainless ones.

We want more thinking in strategy games, not less.
12 Sep 2015, 20:52 PM
#29
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Relic could/should test it in the balance preview...
12 Sep 2015, 21:01 PM
#30
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


We want more thinking in strategy games, not less.


given the allies' dominance of light vehicle, the ost are basically forced into getting the panzergrenadier+schreck.

At this point it's more about not gimping the ost with a munition and a manpower heavy unit.
12 Sep 2015, 21:06 PM
#31
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

The whole idea behind upgrades is that they are supposed to force the player to make decisions.

Do I want bazookas for more AT the expense of my squad's AI firepower?

Do I want smgs for more close range firepower at the expense of other ranges?

The problem in coh2 is that not enough upgrades have enough drawbacks. G43s and lmgs will always increase the dps of the squad at all ranges, which makes them brainless. There is literally no reason not to upgrade lmgs, besides opportunity costs (which all abilities and upgrades have).

The real issue is that coh2 is not consistent on forcing player choice. Lmgs have no drawback, but smgs will always make a squad lose firepower at other ranges. Anti-tank issues are currently one of the well designed upgrades that force you to make a choice between a great AI squad and a great AT squad. As a result, we artifical feel that some upgrades are underperforming in comparison to the more brainless ones.

We want more thinking in strategy games, not less.


word.
12 Sep 2015, 21:14 PM
#32
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1



given the allies' dominance of light vehicle, the ost are basically forced into getting the panzergrenadier+schreck.

At this point it's more about not gimping the ost with a munition and a manpower heavy unit.


It's not really true though. You have access to paks and 222's for munition free at, and tellers for munition at. Panzergrenadier shrecks are just icing on the cake.

Look at it this way, usf, ukf, and soviets can deal with early flack tracks, luchs, and pumas with AT guns. Shrecks are not necessities. They are luxury support weapons that are quite situational.
12 Sep 2015, 21:20 PM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



It's not really true though. You have access to paks and 222's for munition free at, and tellers for munition at. Panzergrenadier shrecks are just icing on the cake.

Look at it this way, usf, ukf, and soviets can deal with early flack tracks, luchs, and pumas with AT guns. Shrecks are not necessities. They are luxury support weapons that are quite situational.

I would rate the soviet light as being better than the okw light vehicle.

the luchs arrive pretty late, and the flak-truck lack mobility. Puma is not useful against infantry.

the quad, t70, and stuart are all early light vehicle and effective against infantry. They are also powerful enough to straight up win a fight against the 222.
12 Sep 2015, 21:55 PM
#34
avatar of PanzerErotica

Posts: 135

Just make the holster action have some activation timer so you can´t just switch in and out every other second in the heat of battle. This way you can catch them panzergrenadiers pants down just like you could with sherman or isu152 using wrong type of ammo.
12 Sep 2015, 22:32 PM
#35
avatar of Panzerschützen

Posts: 186

Just make the holster action have some activation timer so you can´t just switch in and out every other second in the heat of battle. This way you can catch them panzergrenadiers pants down just like you could with sherman or isu152 using wrong type of ammo.

this
12 Sep 2015, 22:41 PM
#36
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

The whole idea behind upgrades is that they are supposed to force the player to make decisions.

Do I want bazookas for more AT the expense of my squad's AI firepower?

Do I want smgs for more close range firepower at the expense of other ranges?

The problem in coh2 is that not enough upgrades have enough drawbacks. G43s and lmgs will always increase the dps of the squad at all ranges, which makes them brainless. There is literally no reason not to upgrade lmgs, besides opportunity costs (which all abilities and upgrades have).

The real issue is that coh2 is not consistent on forcing player choice. Lmgs have no drawback, but smgs will always make a squad lose firepower at other ranges. Anti-tank issues are currently one of the well designed upgrades that force you to make a choice between a great AI squad and a great AT squad. As a result, we artifical feel that some upgrades are underperforming in comparison to the more brainless ones.

We want more thinking in strategy games, not less.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Unfortunately, I'm certain there's pretty much no chance of this, especially considering the upcoming patch. And it would, admittedly, require a particularly dramatic revamp of the small arms to an extent probably surpassing March 2014.

Our dreams of it being not retarded to not get LMG42 on Grens will likely remain just that.
13 Sep 2015, 00:06 AM
#37
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

no because it makes them anti-everything (very good anti-everything) which is bad.
13 Sep 2015, 00:16 AM
#38
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

give the toggle ability to every unit in the game

and let the AI play as decisions arent needed anymore
13 Sep 2015, 00:21 AM
#39
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

There would be sooo much Pgren spam. It's not happening. It would be like volk spam on steroids.

Toggle AT function can only work on a unit that's expensive and can't be easily accumulated. Like airborne, obers, and commandos.
13 Sep 2015, 00:23 AM
#40
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

There would be sooo much Pgren spam. It's not happening. It would be like volk spam on steroids.

Toggle AT function can only work on a unit that's expensive and can't be easily accumulated. Like airborne, obers, and commandos.


And they dont have it because itll still be OP.

If you want a unit to stay its role, you simply dont change it. It doesnt add anything to have units change roles on a whim back and forth.
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