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russian armor

P4 against the brits

6 Sep 2015, 14:00 PM
#1
avatar of Silentkabob

Posts: 68

I've played quite a few games now where the P4 just doesn't seem to stack up agaist British, especially when their mediums start coming out. It's gun has unreliable pen and and it's armor rarely ever holds out against their tank guns and it's a bit too sluggish for the nimbler British counterparts. It just seems like an early flack panzer would be a better investment do to how infantry heavy they are and then pumping out a panther as soon as possible. What are your guys take on it?
6 Sep 2015, 14:28 PM
#2
avatar of simonp2

Posts: 94

I would agree, I've been beaten a few times where I was sitting there happy with my P4 only to be beaten by cromwells or churchills. I feel you really need some serious AT if you can't beat the brits hard in the early game.

If I would take a flak instead I'm not sure though.

Another thing I've been thinking about is just playing infantry and PAK until tiger? If you can get the CP's it seems reasonable.
6 Sep 2015, 15:04 PM
#3
avatar of Zansibar

Posts: 158 | Subs: 2

Dont build P4s, build StuGs.

They tear Churchills apart.
6 Sep 2015, 15:11 PM
#4
avatar of MoreLess3rd

Posts: 363

Dont build P4s, build StuGs.

They tear Churchills apart.


+1
6 Sep 2015, 15:27 PM
#5
avatar of simonp2

Posts: 94

I'm a bit new. How does the armor penetration of a Stug compare to a PAK or a Panther?

I've certainly noticed that the P4 is worse at penetrating armor than the stug but what about the others?
6 Sep 2015, 15:46 PM
#6
avatar of Geris

Posts: 14

6 Sep 2015, 16:15 PM
#7
avatar of Silentkabob

Posts: 68

Dont build P4s, build StuGs.

They tear Churchills apart.


I do build those too but I can ussually get my tanks out before they do (depending on the map) so I don't want to build a stug first and have on standby while they build their tanks.
6 Sep 2015, 16:30 PM
#8
avatar of simonp2

Posts: 94

OK, so a Stug is just about equivalent to a PAK penetration wise and the Panther still rules all. Is there a website where you can look this up?

COH1 used to have a stat site.
6 Sep 2015, 17:14 PM
#9
avatar of Geris

Posts: 14

6 Sep 2015, 21:28 PM
#10
avatar of DoktorPsycho

Posts: 33

P4's don't cut it. Rush for Ostwind to increase his mp bleed, support it with two stugs and then tech up or wait for tiger. Has worked reasonably well for me. You may also ignore stugs and tech up immediately.
7 Sep 2015, 00:37 AM
#11
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

I would agree, I've been beaten a few times where I was sitting there happy with my P4 only to be beaten by cromwells or churchills. I feel you really need some serious AT if you can't beat the brits hard in the early game.

If I would take a flak instead I'm not sure though.

Another thing I've been thinking about is just playing infantry and PAK until tiger? If you can get the CP's it seems reasonable.



You paks will pen a churchill 2/4 or 2/5 times and do little to no damage. Tigers and Panthers also have a ton is issues penning the churchill. Stugs do okay against the churchills.
7 Sep 2015, 13:12 PM
#12
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Better having two Stugs than 1 panther.
7 Sep 2015, 13:23 PM
#13
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

Bfff, I think a P4 is a balanced tank against all factions. I wouldn't agree..
Just don't be too radical with it. When that vet is coming, it's a damn good tank.
7 Sep 2015, 13:59 PM
#14
avatar of topperharley_42
Donator 11

Posts: 61

Speaking of pen so far, what is the connection between pen and armor? Does the fraction of the two values give you the c chance to pen?
7 Sep 2015, 14:11 PM
#15
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

OKW Pz4 is even better than the Ost Pz4. With vet they become brutal killers.

I got 3x +5% armour buff for OKW and they become really good tanks with 265 armour :D
7 Sep 2015, 14:51 PM
#16
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

U need to have panthers or some heavies (I prefer panther) against Brits eventually (not necessarily though), cause u'll be see either Comet or Churchil, playing as Ost it's up to ur strat and style to have t3 up or not
btw I agree Ost's T3 is prob not as effective, imo can be even risky in some games, specially in u don't have call in heavy
7 Sep 2015, 15:00 PM
#17
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

U need to have panthers or some heavies (I prefer panther) against Brits eventually (not necessarily though), cause u'll be see either Comet or Churchil, playing as Ost it's up to ur strat and style to have t3 up or not
btw I agree Ost's T3 is prob not as effective, imo can be even risky in some games, specially in u don't have call in heavy


True, it seems even panters are not that effective to comets.
7 Sep 2015, 15:28 PM
#18
avatar of Kozokus

Posts: 301

Have noticed that the UK rooster is not crowded with light/medium vehicles, making the P4 less interesting than usual. On the other hand i wouldn't recommand skiping T3 because of the StuG (than you can beghin to "mass" when you expect heavy UK lategame armor) and surprisingly because of the Ostwind, that i found more than useful in this matchup. UK players seems to enjoy a longer infantry phase.
7 Sep 2015, 15:35 PM
#19
avatar of CelticsREP

Posts: 151

Never under-estimate a couple of Stug's when dealing with armour.

2 Vet 3 Stugs, GG anything
7 Sep 2015, 17:41 PM
#20
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2015, 15:46 PMGeris


Panther penetration 260.0/240.0/220.0

Pak40 penetration 210.0/200.0/190.0

Panzer4 penetration 120.0/110.0/100.0

Stug G penetration 200.0/185.0/170.0


P4 is generalist, the other 3 are tank destroyers
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adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
Today, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
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aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
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aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
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aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
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aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
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aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
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Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
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Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
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