Balance Preview Update 09/04/2015

To be fair the Jackson will still have 5 more range than a vet 3 tiger iirc. And it's hard to get a vet 2 tiger, and you can only have 1. And new rifles with BARS are insssssaaannnely good. And new Sherman has plenty of pen if it can flank the tiger.

I don't think usf will be screwed late game at all.

Oh and the ez8 is getting a substantial buff. They'll do very well against tigers.

So much crap in this thread... Way to make Relic only look at the official forums

Players as one sided and biases as you should never post in balance related threads.

Oh the irony. It's almost too much to bear.

To be fair the Jackson will still have 5 more range than a vet 3 tiger iirc. And it's hard to get a vet 2 tiger, and you can only have 1. And new rifles with BARS are insssssaaannnely good. And new Sherman has plenty of pen if it can flank the tiger.

I don't think usf will be screwed late game at all.

Oh and the ez8 is getting a substantial buff. They'll do very well against tigers.

+100

Anyone, any ETA on the update?

Oh the irony. It's almost too much to bear.

Bear Bear? No it's even too much when he says 1 letter Kappa

To be fair the Jackson will still have 5 more range than a vet 3 tiger iirc. And it's hard to get a vet 2 tiger, and you can only have 1. And new rifles with BARS are insssssaaannnely good. And new Sherman has plenty of pen if it can flank the tiger.

I don't think usf will be screwed late game at all.

Oh and the ez8 is getting a substantial buff. They'll do very well against tigers.

That's true, most people here don't know how much it takes to get a Tiger to vet 2
plus they seem to ignore the many massive buffs USF is gonna get
Well, many people in this forum are never gonna be fair as long as they look at the things from their favourite faction point of view

btw, my favourite change in the upcoming patch is the Ost mortar, it's just broken atm

i think ill drop my 2 reichsmark on this one:

with ost being my favorite faction and the tiger being my alltime favorite tank (fanboyism is stronk!), i still think that the range of a vet 2 tiger would be too much. it should be 50 MAX (45 + 5 vet bonus), but i could live with 45, too.

talking about tigers: why the hell didnt they adjust Target Weakpoint on the Tiger Ace as they did with the stug G? a heavy 50 range tank with insane speed, sight AND a turret shouldnt be able to stun. give him the same disable-maingun-shot and it should be way less frustrating to play against.

or even better redesign it. make it a vet 3 tiger off the bat for something like 300 fuel, no penality whatsoever. its just to tempting to pick that commander when youre game is going badly and that is horrible design. you should pick a commander because it fits your overall playstyle not because you need to hit the emergency brake

Its strange to see things on changelog that are not on live, changelog is about what changed in the game, not what is coming right ?

"Balance Preview Update 09/04/2015", it doesnt tell us when the will hit live, its kinda confusing in a changelog file
exemple of a line of this patch : Added back the 50% reduce damage modifer to green cover for explosive weapons.

Maybe a "patch preview" or "what next" page where futur changes are here could me more appropriate

i think ill drop my 2 reichsmark on this one:

with ost being my favorite faction and the tiger being my alltime favorite tank (fanboyism is stronk!), i still think that the range of a vet 2 tiger would be too much. it should be 50 MAX (45 + 5 vet bonus), but i could live with 45, too.

talking about tigers: why the hell didnt they adjust Target Weakpoint on the Tiger Ace as they did with the stug G? a heavy 50 range tank with insane speed, sight AND a turret shouldnt be able to stun. give him the same disable-maingun-shot and it should be way less frustrating to play against.

or even better redesign it. make it a vet 3 tiger off the bat for something like 300 fuel, no penality whatsoever. its just to tempting to pick that commander when youre game is going badly and that is horrible design. you should pick a commander because it fits your overall playstyle not because you need to hit the emergency brake

Currently we're talking about a normal Tiger tank, no ace. I have to agree on the point that getting a tiger to vet 2/3 is a hell of a job. In my experience (and sure I've had enough vet 2/3 tigers in my games) it at least (unless some special shit happens) takes 7 minutes to get it to vet 2 because of the vet requirements. So it's not that you'll meet up with the 56,5 range all the time.

+100

Anyone, any ETA on the update?

There is no set date as far as I know.

It would be awesome if they could integrate community feedback and get the patch out in time for OCF. Would be cool to see a community run tournament with a patch that the community contributed to a lot.

That's just my dream though. Relic themselves would have to give us an ETA or plan of action.

You can only compare Tiger to IS-2, since they cost same manpower/fuel/population and command points.

Based on in-game stats currently IS-2 has more armor and mobility for the same cost.

'What if'-s are pointless.

But, but..

Tiger doesn't arrive at VET2 level so it's not unit but veterancy bonus related.

-

10% more penetration ->(bulletin gives 5%) wow fuki'n nothi'n, also only affects vs vehicles
10% more range wow you need spotter anyways,
wow Tiger not good on open maps(flanking/easy AT target),
wow on urban maps range negated by buildings/etc anyways.

The meh buff for the same cost still not worth it, should be survivability.

There is no set date as far as I know.

It would be awesome if they could integrate community feedback and get the patch out in time for OCF. Would be cool to see a community run tournament with a patch that the community contributed to a lot.

That's just my dream though. Relic themselves would have to give us an ETA or plan of action.

Jason Lee stated that he hoped to get the patch out in time for OCF

i think ill drop my 2 reichsmark on this one:

with ost being my favorite faction and the tiger being my alltime favorite tank (fanboyism is stronk!), i still think that the range of a vet 2 tiger would be too much. it should be 50 MAX (45 + 5 vet bonus), but i could live with 45, too.

talking about tigers: why the hell didnt they adjust Target Weakpoint on the Tiger Ace as they did with the stug G? a heavy 50 range tank with insane speed, sight AND a turret shouldnt be able to stun. give him the same disable-maingun-shot and it should be way less frustrating to play against.

or even better redesign it. make it a vet 3 tiger off the bat for something like 300 fuel, no penality whatsoever. its just to tempting to pick that commander when youre game is going badly and that is horrible design. you should pick a commander because it fits your overall playstyle not because you need to hit the emergency brake

This. The tiger ace is the real problem stun locking tanks with its insane ROF and it is extremely hard to kill. Tiger was fine before and I really can't see how the tiger is hard to get to vet 2

This. The tiger ace is the real problem stun locking tanks with its insane ROF and it is extremely hard to kill. Tiger was fine before and I really can't see how the tiger is hard to get to vet 2

You can get it to vet 2 fairly easy with double or triple "Tiger receives veterancy 10% quicker"

talking about tigers: why the hell didnt they adjust Target Weakpoint on the Tiger Ace as they did with the stug G? a heavy 50 range tank with insane speed, sight AND a turret shouldnt be able to stun. give him the same disable-maingun-shot and it should be way less frustrating to play against.

I also have problems with it, when it bugs, and "triple taps" you.

Regarding tanks gaining extra range: i'll say it would be even better if both heavy tanks, IS2 and Tiger, lose their extended range at vet2.
Stug, Panther, Puma, Rak, M10 should be able to still outrange them.

221 stronger than Kubel? It cannot suppress, plus with m3 scout car armor, it can be killed by rifle behind cover.

USA and UKF does not have that much problem vs kubel, unless they blob and get suppressed in a bunch.

i was thinking about it armor and US factions to not have proper at nade / at gun / at weapon in early game so you even m3 can wreck em.


Have you ever tried to defend m3 rush only with pios and ass grens or ostrupen or grens without using fausts ?

If no try it sometimes.
Thats the feel about countering 221 with riflemen + RET + lolbulance
or with IS (just behind it sniper and they cant fight back - be in cover = sniped to death, hunt sniper = death by scout car mg. and rushing bren carrier ? no thanks because you know what ? FAUST) or with vicker hmg ? it will be flanked and forced to retreat or killed , do not forgot that hmg crews have 25 % icreased accuracy.

Give usa a nondictrinal pershing (something between panther and is2 that cost like tiger) after they unlock all iehtenaunts or else leave tiger where it is. USA cannot figh range buffed tiger effectively because
1. sherman suck agains heavies.

2. jacson dies in 2 shots whitch is good because it have its damage+pen and mobility and range so it can kite tiger if usa player use micro and german player not (eg covering tiger with pak)
but now it loose it strongest aspect agains tiger - range , so you screw it a bit and you have a dead jacson (because 5 range is so huge difference)
3. 57mm at gun
4. zooks


If ostheer cant fight brits then brits need to have nerfed late game and buffed early game becuase their late game tanks are really pain in ass and early - mid game is really weak (sniper bleed IS , no counter to HMG in building , no normal mortar etc)

But they have op stuff like bofos , commando , croc churchill that need to be toned down. im not saying their underperfoming their just a bit bad designed and unbalanced

You can only compare Tiger to IS-2, since they cost same manpower/fuel/population and command points.

Based on in-game stats currently IS-2 has more armor and mobility for the same cost.

'What if'-s are pointless.



Tiger doesn't arrive at VET2 level so it's not unit but veterancy bonus related.

-

10% more penetration ->(bulletin gives 5%) wow fuki'n nothi'n, also only affects vs vehicles
10% more range wow you need spotter anyways,
wow Tiger not good on open maps(flanking/easy AT target),
wow on urban maps range negated by buildings/etc anyways.

The meh buff for the same cost still not worth it, should be survivability.

Ok...I'll bite.

Let's compare Tiger to IS-2.

Tiger has better penetration and shoots at lower armor tanks more consistently.
Tiger has faster ROF.
Tiger is more accurate making it lethal against infantry and AT guns.
Germans have better and more efficient repair options.
Better vet than IS-2 outright.

IS-2 is an awesome bullet shield that can deal out massive damage before needing to repair.
IS-2 is faster, unless it runs into a blitzing tank.

Ignore the bulletins for now. Keep in mind that TA also uses same gun, so actually you do get a vet 2 tiger off the bat, actually a vet 3. Also if the excuse is that vet should lock up amazing abilities that are impossible to counter than IS-2 should also get 100 range at vet 2 since it is rare.


Before telling everyone they should ignore what ifs try the mod and see if USF has a chance against new Tiger. Also note that the extended range at call in makes the tank straight up a nightmare for USF TD's. One little micro mistake, or bad pathing (how can there be bad pathing on USF tanks?) and your Jackson is gonna get nailed. Killing Jackson's also vets the Tiger pretty quick. Shermans can outright be ignored, since a single Stug (or pak) behind the Tiger will deal with it. USF AT guns are not reliable enough to penetrate the front of the Tiger, and their small squad size makes them very vulnerable to wiping. A Tiger using attack ground can almost always wipe on the first shot.

Mod has been updated http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=207570#post207570

check the changes there.

In regards to the tiger

Jackson, su85 etc still out range it even with the vet bonuses

We would like to test it out a bit more to see if need to adjust the vet range bonus from 10 to 5 but that is a possibility if it is necessary.

Balance Preview Update 09/08/2015

Partisan cost increased from 210 to 250 to bring the unit in line with its cost.
Partisan guns changed from MP44 to MP40s (PPSH for placeholder) they will deal slightly less damage but still be good at dealing with weapon teams
Partisans now have camouflage to gain extra utility after their initial deployment
Added Sniper bonus accuracy to the M20 Utility Car
M20 Utility car detection radius increased from 10 to 25 to help detect camouflage units
UC Detection radius increased from 10 to 25 help detect camouflage units
222 Scout car detection radius increased from 10 to 25 help detect camouflage units
WC51 detection radius increased from 10 to 25 help detect camouflage units
M3 Scout car detection radius increased from 10 to 25 help detect camouflage units
T34 Population increased from 8 to 10 to prevent overwhelming numbers of the tank
Wasp damage reduced from 8 to 4 it was doing too much damage initially
Wasp range reduced from 35 to 32.5 was able to kite units too easily
Churchill Flamethrower range reduced from 38 to 34 was able to attack at to safe of a distance
British Command Tank buffs change to the following because initial modifiers were currently over performing.

• Accuracy weapon modifer reduced from 2 to 1.35
  
• Recieve accuracy modifers increased from 0.5 to 0.7
  
• Reload Weapon Modifer increased from 0.5 to 0.7
  
• Cooldown Weawpon Modifer increased from 0.5 to 0.7

Fixed an issue of flame barrage landing on OKW battle group headquarters
Increase range of KT from 40 to 45 to improve its usability into the late game as it can be kited quite easily by tank destroyers
Reduce flame bonus damage to buildings from 1.5 to 1.25 because they killed buildings too quickly especially the dot damage
Reduce flame bonus damage against commonwealth emplacements from 1.5 to 1.25 because they killed buildings too quickly especially the dot damage
Molotov initial damage reduced from 20 to 10 because they were initially killing many entities on the first explosion
Panzerwerfer Damage profile changed from 1/0.35/0.05 to 1/0.75/0.5 which will round out the damage a lot better yielding more consistent results
Comet health reduced from 800 to 720, Scatter increased from 3.2 to 4.2 to bring this unit in line with its other counterparts
Hammer and Anvil upgrades increased from from 200/25 to 250/50 to make players have to decide and invest into specialization, previously it was too easy to rush into one of them and skip all the other tech)
Hammer and Anvil research time increased from 5 to 30 seconds
British Sniper weapon behavior change from wants prone firing to none to improve usability will allow it to shoot / aim quicker
Gammon Bomb damage reduced from 240 to 200 was dealing too much damage
Reduce jadgtiger cost from 800/290 to 720/245 bringing the cost inline with its performance
Glider HQ can now build britsh medics

Mod has been updated http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=207570#post207570

check the changes there.

In regards to the tiger

Jackson, su85 etc still out range it even with the vet bonuses

We would like to test it out a bit more to see if need to adjust the vet range bonus from 10 to 5 but that is a possibility if it is necessary.

5 range really isn't enough to work with especially for something as fragile as a Jackson. Remember how the old 45 range M10 did. I can't really see it being much different for the jackson now.