My point was that OKW structures (which you can't afford to place in base sectors 90% of the time) get along fine without brace. Brace isn't on the same level as retreat because Brace is faction specific. The new cool down for brace is fine
Brace
8 Sep 2015, 14:35 PM
#81
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
8 Sep 2015, 14:48 PM
#82
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
My point was that OKW structures (which you can't afford to place in base sectors 90% of the time) get along fine without brace. Brace isn't on the same level as retreat because Brace is faction specific. The new cool down for brace is fine
You can afford to place them on base sectors just like any other faction.
Multiple streamers prove you wrong on this every day in multiple games, its not even worth arguing.
Also, focus on emplacements being rather important part of progression and an option that should be valid is quite faction specific as well.
Brace IS a retreat equivalent for emplacements, no matter how you try to twist it.
The new cooldown and current modifiers from explosives and flames means emplacement will be hardcountered and destroyed 60 seconds after they have been spotted(force brace, kill it 30 sec later with barrage weapon of your choice).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Sep 2015, 15:00 PM
#83
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
You can afford to place them on base sectors just like any other faction.
Multiple streamers prove you wrong on this every day in multiple games, its not even worth arguing.
Also, focus on emplacements being rather important part of progression and an option that should be valid is quite faction specific as well.
Brace IS a retreat equivalent for emplacements, no matter how you try to twist it.
The new cooldown and current modifiers from explosives and flames means emplacement will be hardcountered and destroyed 60 seconds after they have been spotted(force brace, kill it 30 sec later with barrage weapon of your choice).
It would be a retreat equivalent if retreat was a "your squad is immobilized but cant attack for 30 sec, but they tank like jesus himelf, waiting for support, and they can brace again if no reinforce showed up in 30 sec"
Retreating a squad = the time they go back to base, return from the base, heal / reinforce ( they can die retreat) is kinda long
8 Sep 2015, 15:11 PM
#84
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It would be a retreat equivalent if retreat was a "your squad is immobilized but cant attack for 30 sec, but they tank like jesus himelf, waiting for support, and they can brace again if no reinforce showed up in 30 sec"
Retreating a squad = the time they go back to base, return from the base, heal / reinforce ( they can die retreat) is kinda long
Well, last time I checked, I was losing control over my squads for some time once retreat was ordered.
Emplacement obviously won't pack itself and run for it.
I'm not saying current no cd brace is fine, but its role is same as retreat-a chance for preservation of the unit, but plain brace nerf without addressing horrendous modifiers from explosives and fires will render any emplacement play impossible.
Single ISG attacking ground is all you need to permanently shut down 17 pounder until its destroyed with no counterplay if opponent is entranched with MGs and ATs and you don't have croc or AVRE.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Sep 2015, 15:31 PM
#85
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
Well, last time I checked, I was losing control over my squads for some time once retreat was ordered.
Emplacement obviously won't pack itself and run for it.
I'm not saying current no cd brace is fine, but its role is same as retreat-a chance for preservation of the unit, but plain brace nerf without addressing horrendous modifiers from explosives and fires will render any emplacement play impossible.
Single ISG attacking ground is all you need to permanently shut down 17 pounder until its destroyed with no counterplay if opponent is entranched with MGs and ATs and you don't have croc or AVRE.
- this is why comparing brace and retreat is not correct
- Arty is soft countering an heavy AT emplacement ? that must be rude... its like saying " a mortar is countering my pak 43", the good thing is that 17 pounder have a 0 cooldown invulnerable mode, pak 43 does not
Try to scare the ISG some times, while you full repair your 17 pounder in a short time
8 Sep 2015, 15:51 PM
#86
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Try to scare the ISG some times, while you full repair your 17 pounder in a short time
I'll just focus on this part and that is an honest, sincere question-HOW?
How am I supposed to scare ISG? I don't have reliable long range arty unit to counter barrage it, I don't have infantry capable of actual assaults, I don't have light armor capable of assaults if my build includes emplacements, I have less squads on field, I don't have early/mid game reliable off-maps on doctrines, sniper isn't an option for attacking as I need screening troops and tommies don't provide that, I'll need REs to constantly repair, retreat and reinforce due to ISG barraging.
I'm speaking from my own experience, so it isn't theorycraft.
I am able to deal with ISG and entrenched OKW only when I have croc or AVRE on field.
I'm all ears to improve myself how to actually deal with ISG.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Sep 2015, 16:02 PM
#87
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
I'll just focus on this part and that is an honest, sincere question-HOW?
How am I supposed to scare ISG? I don't have reliable long range arty unit to counter barrage it, I don't have infantry capable of actual assaults, I don't have light armor capable of assaults if my build includes emplacements, I have less squads on field, I don't have early/mid game reliable off-maps on doctrines, sniper isn't an option for attacking as I need screening troops and tommies don't provide that, I'll need REs to constantly repair, retreat and reinforce due to ISG barraging.
I'm speaking from my own experience, so it isn't theorycraft.
I am able to deal with ISG and entrenched OKW only when I have croc or AVRE on field.
I'm all ears to improve myself how to actually deal with ISG.
Captain price heavy engy build seems to be a solution for the Brits MP bleed, with there LMG they are really potent, so now you have a correct screening troops, in my opinion, more than 2 tommies is a waste
8 Sep 2015, 16:10 PM
#88
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
You can afford to place them on base sectors just like any other faction.
Very rarely.
Multiple streamers prove you wrong on this every day in multiple games, its not even worth arguing.
Multiple streamers aren't very good. Just because someone can entertain a bunch of twitcher memespouters doesn't mean they are an authority on how to play Oberkommando West. But to humor you people like Hans and whatnot tend to place their trucks outside of their base, with the only exception being repair trucks.
Also, focus on emplacements being rather important part of progression and an option that should be valid is quite faction specific as well.
OKW tier trucks are a lot more important I would say, you don't need Bofors to construct your units.
The new cooldown and current modifiers from explosives and flames means emplacement will be hardcountered and destroyed 60 seconds after they have been spotted(force brace, kill it 30 sec later with barrage weapon of your choice).
They are changing flames next patch for a reason
8 Sep 2015, 16:11 PM
#89
Posts: 692
If Brace gets nerfed I would expect an hp/armor buff. When brace isn't active they die incredibly fast
8 Sep 2015, 16:44 PM
#90
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Retreat is all about unit preservation.
Brace is all about preservation of units which cant run.
Therefore they are similar, cause they are made for the same purpose.
Im still amazed how anyone can compare buildings (trucks) to units which brits emplacements are.
Brace is all about preservation of units which cant run.
Therefore they are similar, cause they are made for the same purpose.
Im still amazed how anyone can compare buildings (trucks) to units which brits emplacements are.
8 Sep 2015, 16:51 PM
#91
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Retreat is all about unit preservation.
It's all about knowing when to retreat, currently that trade off is not afforded to Brace. The downside is not great enough to justify the upside. The longer cooldown will fix this dynamic.
Therefore they are similar, cause they are made for the same purpose.
Two things can be made for the same purpose but still be different.
Im still amazed how anyone can compare buildings (trucks) to units which brits emplacements are.
Emplacements are buildings. The OKW trucks are comparable to emplacements.
8 Sep 2015, 16:51 PM
#92
Posts: 728
Retreat is all about unit preservation.
Brace is all about preservation of units which cant run.
Therefore they are similar, cause they are made for the same purpose.
Im still amazed how anyone can compare buildings (trucks) to units which brits emplacements are.
Well said. All the brit emplacements are extremely important and meant to stay around for a while in the game look how much they cost. In the long run though they don't drain mp like tommys and brits can barely afford to reinforce tommys now. Brace should remain how it is.
8 Sep 2015, 17:01 PM
#93
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
It's all about knowing when to retreat, currently that trade off is not afforded to Brace. The downside is not great enough to justify the upside. The longer cooldown will fix this dynamic.
Two things can be made for the same purpose but still be different.
Emplacements are buildings. The OKW trucks are comparable to emplacements.
Being unable to use them during brace is already a big thing. You can use that time to clear all units around and then focus on emplacement.
I ve never said they are the same. They are similar.
IS2 and Tiger are late game heavy generalist made for same purpose, they are similar but not the same.
Emplacements are units. Easiest way to find it out is to see which can vet up. Only units can.
Can you make use of OKW trucks in base? Sure.
Can you make use of brits emplacements in base? Not really.
So there you go. 2 differences between buildings and emplacements which are immobile units.
8 Sep 2015, 17:33 PM
#94
Posts: 656
If Brace gets nerfed I would expect an hp/armor buff. When brace isn't active they die incredibly fast
I would hope for the same as well or at least a change to target tables so emplacements take less damage from explosive and fire weapons. Right now the situation is pretty binary: either the emplacement is braced and takes almost no damage or it isn't and is very vulnerable to indirect fire, flame mortar strikes, and just about every AT weapon.
8 Sep 2015, 18:23 PM
#95
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Both of you have their own truth (even alex ) but now can we finnaly agree about 60 second is overkill ?
In 1 minute mortar and / or leig will destroy emplacement that is not braced because it cant be reapired and usf dont have lot of options to force mortar to retreat if it is covered by pak + grens + sniper / hmg whitch it should be.
I think 30 second will be enaught. you call a brace then you need to wait same time to use it agains so it give axis player counterplay , but only if they time push correctly.
Also eplacements overperfor mainly because of map ballacne issues like minsk pocted that can be shut down only with 3 bofors (one near munition capm with building , one in middle one on other munition point.)
In 1 minute mortar and / or leig will destroy emplacement that is not braced because it cant be reapired and usf dont have lot of options to force mortar to retreat if it is covered by pak + grens + sniper / hmg whitch it should be.
I think 30 second will be enaught. you call a brace then you need to wait same time to use it agains so it give axis player counterplay , but only if they time push correctly.
Also eplacements overperfor mainly because of map ballacne issues like minsk pocted that can be shut down only with 3 bofors (one near munition capm with building , one in middle one on other munition point.)
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