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USF getting a Sniper

30 Aug 2015, 03:07 AM
#1
avatar of drjeeves

Posts: 22

Well, What do you think?
30 Aug 2015, 03:09 AM
#2
avatar of Hawking

Posts: 113

Only if it's Chris Kyle.
30 Aug 2015, 03:20 AM
#3
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I miss you Brandon Keener
30 Aug 2015, 03:31 AM
#4
avatar of The Big Red 1

Posts: 758

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2015, 03:20 AMVuther
I miss you Brandon Keener

lol the guy who voiced garrus in the mass effect series (RIP) the ending still sucks
30 Aug 2015, 03:56 AM
#5
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Technically not realistic, US Army did not utilize Snipers like other Armies did. While other Armies trained Snipers as mostly independent long-range ambushers or assassins (basically, a Sniper), US Army Snipers were essentially what we consider Marksmen. They just took an Advanced Marksmanship class and were given a Scoped Rifle, but they still operated as part of an Infantry Squad.

In-fact, a realistic USF Sniper would be exactly like OKW Jäger Light Infantry are now, one man of an Infantry squad with a scoped rifle that crit-kills enemy models. It's actually disappointing that Relic made JLI's mechanic for an Axis unit and not an American unit. I would love something like that as a USF stock unit, actually. Relic Pls :foreveralone:
30 Aug 2015, 04:02 AM
#6
avatar of Snipester
Patrion 39

Posts: 102

Technically not realistic, US Army did not utilize Snipers like other Armies did. While other Armies trained Snipers as mostly independent long-range ambushers or assassins (basically, a Sniper), US Army Snipers were essentially what we consider Marksmen. They just took an Advanced Marksmanship class and were given a Scoped Rifle, but they still operated as part of an Infantry Squad.

In-fact, a realistic USF Sniper would be exactly like OKW Jäger Light Infantry are now, one man of an Infantry squad with a scoped rifle that crit-kills enemy models. It's actually disappointing that Relic made JLI's mechanic for an Axis unit and not an American unit. I would love something like that as a USF stock unit, actually. Relic Pls :foreveralone:


But... Isn't that what Pathfinders are? o_O
30 Aug 2015, 04:14 AM
#7
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

But... Isn't that what Pathfinders are? o_O


Kind of, except Pathfinders are really bad at it and their design is counter-intuitive. 2 have close range weapons, 2 have scoped rifles. The scoped rifles do almost no DPS and only crit enemy units below 30% Health, which leaves the 2 Carbines which are only damaging up close. This makes them basically useless unless they're supporting another squad.

Jäger Light Infantry on the other hand, have 3 Kar 98's that are decent at any range, and one Scoped G43 which crits enemy units below 80% health, and they can come out of buildings. This makes them effective combatants by themselves and very effective in support of other units.
30 Aug 2015, 04:33 AM
#8
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

I don't think a sniper is a necessary role. Mortars pretty much do the same anti-support weapon role and I'd rather the mortar.
30 Aug 2015, 04:36 AM
#9
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
i hate snipers
30 Aug 2015, 04:43 AM
#10
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Kind of, except Pathfinders are really bad at it and their design is counter-intuitive. 2 have close range weapons, 2 have scoped rifles. The scoped rifles do almost no DPS and only crit enemy units below 30% Health, which leaves the 2 Carbines which are only damaging up close. This makes them basically useless unless they're supporting another squad.

Jäger Light Infantry on the other hand, have 3 Kar 98's that are decent at any range, and one Scoped G43 which crits enemy units below 80% health, and they can come out of buildings. This makes them effective combatants by themselves and very effective in support of other units.


The "sniper" rifles that Pathfinders and JLI use to death crit enemy infantry (40% health for Pathfinders and 75% health for JLI) have inverted damage profiles to your normal guns, with the JLI G43 actually having a positive accuracy modifier at at far and the Pathfinder Scoped Garand having only slightly negative (.93) accuracy at far and very negative accuracy at close (.34).

As far as I can tell it checks for the health of the unit after damage has been applied (with both rifles used by JLI and Paths doing 16 damage) meaning if the one shot hits, takes the model below the health threshold it will snipe it. It only needs to hit to do this btw, meaning model sniping works against enemies in cover or garrison who take reduced damage.

So if you want to play around with sniping models using these infantry units, make sure to keep them at range. The reload on these guns as well as the aim is pretty big, so don't count on any 360 no scopes.

This also highlights why BAR's make Pathfinders so insanely powerful, because the BAR's can chip off enough of a models health pretty quickly (high ROF weapons are much better against units with a large received accuracy modifier) to enable scoped kills. Also pick up dropped weapons with your JLI when ever you can, as it also makes them more deadly for obvious reasons.

EDIT: You should also take from this that standing at range using the Soviet sniper against JLI is an extremely bad idea, as you only need to have one of the models at 30 health for it to be sniped.


Word to the wise JLI and Pathfinders are actually stupid good accurate a long ranges but most people aren't really smart enough to use them at those ranges. Your chances of hitting and sniping things at close range is actually less by a very significant margin. Note that if you take into account model snipes Pathfinders and JLI have quite good DPS.

Were this falls apart is later into the game were everything is happening a point blank range and squads are running around with good received accuracy which makes hitting them with slow firing rifles a difficult proposition at best. Still tho both Pathfinders and JLI are very much worth the investment.
30 Aug 2015, 04:54 AM
#11
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Word to the wise JLI and Pathfinders are actually stupid good accurate a long ranges but most people aren't really smart enough to use them at those ranges. Your chances of hitting and sniping things at close range is actually less by a very significant margin. Note that if you take into account model snipes Pathfinders and JLI have quite good DPS.


Thanks for the correction, my memory was off and I didn't remember where to get the exact numbers from. My point still stands though that JLI are by far the superior unit, with their crit threshold being 75% and their 3 Kar 98's which are much better at range than the M1A1 Carbine. Pathfinders are still armed with 2 short range weapons and 2 long range weapons, which make them feel like a unit that was designed by 2 different people for 2 different purposes, and as a result can barely do either.
30 Aug 2015, 04:55 AM
#12
avatar of Maschinengewehr

Posts: 334

Technically not realistic, US Army did not utilize Snipers like other Armies did. While other Armies trained Snipers as mostly independent long-range ambushers or assassins (basically, a Sniper), US Army Snipers were essentially what we consider Marksmen. They just took an Advanced Marksmanship class and were given a Scoped Rifle, but they still operated as part of an Infantry Squad.

In-fact, a realistic USF Sniper would be exactly like OKW Jäger Light Infantry are now, one man of an Infantry squad with a scoped rifle that crit-kills enemy models. It's actually disappointing that Relic made JLI's mechanic for an Axis unit and not an American unit. I would love something like that as a USF stock unit, actually. Relic Pls :foreveralone:


Not entirely true. I watched a documentary a while back about the Falaise Pocket. American sniper teams were used on the odd occassion to clear areas of hidden German crews and scharfshutzen where artillery and airstrikes would have caused too much damage/collateral.
30 Aug 2015, 04:59 AM
#13
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Not entirely true. I watched a documentary a while back about the Falaise Pocket. American sniper teams were used on the odd occassion to clear areas of hidden German crews and scharfshutzen where artillery and airstrikes would have caused too much damage/collateral.


Interesting, I've never heard of that. Though they were still not given any training or instruction to camouflage themselves, and a Sniper without camouflage would be, well, an obvious target.
30 Aug 2015, 04:59 AM
#14
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

snipers in any iteration of coh have been my least favourite thing, i think, ever. they actively degrade the amount of fun i'm having, both using or facing them.
30 Aug 2015, 05:35 AM
#15
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

snipers in any iteration of coh have been my least favourite thing, i think, ever. they actively degrade the amount of fun i'm having, both using or facing them.


they were unfun in dow2 as well.
30 Aug 2015, 06:24 AM
#16
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Thanks for the correction, my memory was off and I didn't remember where to get the exact numbers from. My point still stands though that JLI are by far the superior unit, with their crit threshold being 75% and their 3 Kar 98's which are much better at range than the M1A1 Carbine. Pathfinders are still armed with 2 short range weapons and 2 long range weapons, which make them feel like a unit that was designed by 2 different people for 2 different purposes, and as a result can barely do either.


A Kar 98k only does .4 more DPS at long range. Pathfinders and JLI fundamentally serve different purposes and trying to compare the two is hard because Paths are not meant at all to move around the map without support and JLI are designed to operate independently.

Like yes they both can model snipe, which IMO is a much more fun mechanic than just death crits which the normal snipers do. But the strength in JLI is being able to negate shock armor and their utility while the strength in Pathfinders is their ability to cut down large squads like Volks and Fuss quickly.
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