Stuka CAS: OP or UP?

After trying out this meta using the Blitzkrieg Commander, Panthers, and command P4s earlier this year, I have decided that Lightning War is simply the best commander for Ostheer in 1v1.

It is entirely due to the fact that Stuka CAS is amazing.

If you don't know what it is, listen up:

Stuka Close Air Support is a timed ability that costs 200 munitions. It calls in artillery smoke but is a loitering Stuka that attacks any enemy units in the zone (or coming out of the zone) in three passes.

It also does a few reconnaissance passes, making it vulnerable to AA fire.

It works best against Soviets not using ISU-152 or the IS-2, as their gunner is deadly against the Stuka, sometimes killing it before one pass. As a result, it can be 200 munitions well spent or two hundred munitions into the meatgrinder.
Against Americans, it's great. It's only challenge is the M20 or the AAHT but at 12 CPs in the game, neither of those vehicles are usually on the field.

Stuka CAS works great in two ways: To help repel an enemy attack or to assist in an advance. Additionally, it can be used to harass an opponent. If I have enough muni income, I'll often use it just before I believe an enemy attack is about to commence.

I have two examples of Stuka CAS helping me win the game.

The first one was actually a close match.
The second example was simply me using three MGs to basepin my opponent, then Stuka CASing him to death.

Is it OP? It certainly can seem like it.

What do you all think? Is this play style only suitable at my or a more mediocre rank rather than a top 200 level?

•  
  

  0

  VS

  shekwl0009

  ~TAB~ GBPirate

  GG on Kholodny Ferma

  by: Gbpirate map: Kholodny Ferma

  1

  -

•  
  

  0

  VS

  WarWorm

  ~TAB~ GBPirate

  Stuka CAS op?

  by: Gbpirate map: Crossing in the Woods

  1

  -

I have three of the mine cost reduction bulletins on, moving tellers to a cost of 41.5 muni and S-mines to 49 Muni.
I almost always lay tellers early. 2-3. In order to use Stuka CAS to its fullest, I minimize the use of grenades late game, build 1-2 Munition caches, and make sure my upgraded infantry don't die. If they do, I just don't buy upgrades unless I have a clear advantage and can spare the muni.

Feel free to share your thoughts about the question below i.e, how is it over-performing and how would you like to see it changed?


Edit: just realized I forgot to put in a "working as intended" answer.

Stuka CAS loiter is batshit OP now. The loiter range is too much. I've had a couple games that we well under control until that came out. In once case, someone used it at the center VP on Kholodny Ferma. The plain "loitered" to my base and finished killing my Sherman. Along with the Sherman, it killed 3 squads and my ambulance, all at my base. Now if I think someone is going to get it, I'll get a lieutenant after the captain and get an AA halftrack. The only think okay about it is that it does seem vulnerable to it when in AA mode. I've tried the same with the Soviet quad and found the quad to not counter it as well.

The P47 has nowhere near the range, costs more, and doesn't target infantry.

i dont wanna call it op, but its the ultimate annoying trash doctrin out there.

CAS loiter has been batshit op for awhile now. IIRC, it kills all US armor and all Sov armor except is2 and isu 152 in one pass. And it heavily damages those. It's better and cheaper than the old P47s. It needs to get the same treatment-half the damage double the planes, then reduce the damage again a touch. These abilities should be finishers, not soloists.

Some people think this about the CAS doctrine. Pls make better title

The JU-87 AT support is really good yes, but can be dodged and countert by M17. I would say its a little off atm, but it should not attack infantry/sniper weapons teams! And maybe increase its cost to 250.

Its definitely over-performing in my eyes, seeing as it deletes 100+ fuel costing units in one strafe. I don't understand how people can possibly see that the P47 strafe was over-performing and that the Stuka CAS isn't.

On a side note, when you make these polls you should leave an option for people to put all their different thoughts. In this case, you should have had a "It is Fine" option.

If most people think that Stuka CAS is so OP... why has Relic not done anything about it?

I think if it attacked ONLY in the zone and the zone was made smaller it would not be so difficult to judge which units are in danger, thus making it easier to survive.

As for the units outside of the zone being attacked, I think if any unit starts inside the zone when the ability is activated, it is fair game for the Stuka.


The only defense against it, in terms of vehicles, is hiding behind shot blockers. With enough HP most vehicles can survive. Hell, in the second replay, the SU-76 survives at least one run out in the open. The stuka missed some of it's shots.

If most people think that Stuka CAS is so OP... why has Relic not done anything about it?

Just gonna point out that this is a very stupid argument to make since Relic can not tackle all the problems of the game in one go. Take for example the Su-76, for the longest time it was NEVER EVER built because of how stupidly bad it was but it still took Relic more than a year to patch it to the point where it could be considered a useful unit.

While I do think that JU-87 AT is too cost effective considering it can kill medium tanks all on its own. I wouldn't say that it's badsht OP. A nerf to its damage so that it doesn't 1 shot armor anymore would be more than welcomed, anything else is just icing on the cake.

It should revert 50 fuel into 100 munitions and not 125 munitions in my opinion. Currently CAS is still too effective.

My bad.

Show Spoiler

ihitto lost nothing by going CAS and gained so much for a click or two every 5 minute.



as to loiter, it is a joke. way too good.

This thread is about the Stuka CAS loiter ability guys

CAS doctrine is for another thread.

This thread is about the Stuka CAS loiter ability guys

CAS doctrine is for another thread.

I thought Stuka CAS would be enough to differentiate between CAS doctrine and the loiter ability.

Thanks though, ash.

I want to join Angry bears but no one is ever on these forums >.>

I want to join Angry bears but no one is ever on these forums >.>

pm me

The stuka strafe one shot allied tanks in one pass, the p47 never did that at any point in time, the ability is completely broken

in certain situations its obviously OP. like vs damaged tanks and at guns.
At the end of lost fight clik this ability. Boom - you win.

And in certain maps there is no way to go like in the center of semosky. You can stand and fight in a small area. If CAS is used then you can only retreat. AT guns cannot retreat and have no choice but to die and get stolen

Why isnt there a neither option?

CAS is not OP and its not UP, its perfect the way it is. stop launching loaded topics on balance.

Thanks

Why isnt there a neither option?

CAS is not OP and its not UP, its perfect the way it is. stop launching loaded topics on balance.

Thanks

Corsin, if you would have read my OP, you would have seen that I acknowledged the fact that I simply forgot to include that option.

If it's worth any fucking consolation, I edited the OP immediately after posting it with that tid bit of info. It's hard to miss, really, considering it's at the very bottom and has it's own line. If you would have read the discussion, you'd have realized that you're also not the first poster to point that out.



Finally, I would like to thank you for contributing to the discussion.



Also, for anyone still following the thread, What do you all think of the recent changes? (i.e, damage halved, split into two planes. cost is the same - 200 munis).


Personally, I don't think they were exactly what was needed. The changes made it harder to shut down, because AA has to shoot two Stukas down rather than one. Also, the tracking was, presumably, not fixed (unless it was a ninja change), so units that leave the zone will still be viable targets.

lol i thought this was about Close Air Support doctrine so I abstained.