First Review British Forces

WTF is this argument? You can't just claim one unit is vetted and another isn't to prove your point. Does that mean that since a vet 2 Ostheer P4 has the same armor as a stock OKW P4, the Ostheer P4 has the same armor stats?

If you are proven wrong, just admit it FFS.



This is a straight up lie. The firefly had a similar turret rotation to a Tiger vet 0. If you are complaining about the Panther's turn rate, you have obviously never fought nor used one, when comparing it to other heavys and mediums.

And the Firefly is about 30 fuel cheaper than the Panther, has the HP and armor of a Sherman, 240 damage with long reload (lowest TD DPS) and 60 range. If you can kill a Sherman with a Panther, you should never struggle versus a Firefly.

Like seriously, don't spread bullshit on these forums please.

They upped the cost of the FF to 175 (now they might have reverted it in the mean time, I don't know) because literally everyone was using it all the time. It preformed fairly well for that high cost. Obviously they reduced it's reload from 12 to 9 in the interim since the Alpha.

If you want to compare the FF has a DPS of 26 to the OKW Panthers DPS of 21 and Ostheer Panther's DPS of 24. I can't look up the FF's turn rate atm, but

Also if you want to get picky about the stats he's posting, most mediums and lights have a horizontal turret traverse speed of 40 or above, the Panther has 33.

If the FF has Tiger tracking speed, it would make no sense as the traverse speed for TD's and TH's is between 30 -> 36. It's probably similar to one of the Sherman variants.

Also the FF didn't have Sherman armor, it has the armor of an Easy Eight. Now this doesn't represent an issue for the Panther, which will always pen, but if the FF get's the first shot off as the Panther is approach it then the FF will win. Were the FF got problematic was it was basically a Jackson with Easy Eight armor (thus able to bounce PIV shots and occasionally other things at max range).

Don't accuse me of "spreading bullshit" if you care about civil discussion. Especially since I put a fair amount of effort into my posts and fact check and test most of what I preach.

They upped the cost of the FF to 175 (now they might have reverted it in the mean time, I don't know) because literally everyone was using it all the time. It preformed fairly well for that high cost. Obviously they reduced it's reload from 12 to 9 in the interim since the Alpha.

http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2015/08/12/the-british-forces-know-your-units-medium-armor

Also if you want to get picky about the stats he's posting, most mediums and lights have a horizontal turret traverse speed of 40 or above, the Panther has 33.

It is still miles better than the traverse speed of a heavy. You claimed that it was as slow as a Heavy.

If the FF has Tiger tracking speed, it would make no sense as the traverse speed for TD's and TH's is between 30 -> 36. It's probably similar to one of the Sherman variants.

Also the FF didn't have Sherman armor, it has the armor of an Easy Eight. Now this doesn't represent an issue for the Panther, which will always pen, but if the FF get's the first shot off as the Panther is approach it then the FF will win. Were the FF got problematic was it was basically a Jackson with Easy Eight armor (thus able to bounce PIV shots and occasionally other things at max range).

It most definitely had Tiger turret speed to compensate for the TUlips and its high Alpha. It was a "sniper," not a TD.

They removed the extra armor because it was stupid. It has 160 armor, as could be seen in its stream performance.

Don't accuse me of "spreading bullshit" if you care about civil discussion. Especially since I put a fair amount of effort into my posts and fact check and test most of what I preach.

I will call it like I see it. Civil discussions can only exist if you are willing to change your opinion and reason in a logical manner. Like seriously, how can you possibly compare a vet 2 IS2 to a vet 0 Panther in hopes of accomplishing anything besides stalling.

http://www.companyofheroes.com/blog/2015/08/12/the-british-forces-know-your-units-medium-armor

Oh god they reduced the price relic what are you thinking 240 damage unit with only a 2 second slower reload than a Jackson or Panther while getting more damage at vet 3

It is still miles better than the traverse speed of a heavy. You claimed that it was as slow as a Heavy.

I claimed it was similar to a heavies, incorrect wording on my part, a more accurate description would have been "it has similar traverse to most TD's"

It most definitely had Tiger turret speed to compensate for the TUlips and its high Alpha. It was a "sniper," not a TD.

At 26.66666666667 it's DPS is only 1 less than that of a ZiS gun. So is the ZiS gun a sniper instead of an Anti-tank gun?

They removed the extra armor because it was stupid. It has 160 armor, as could be seen in its stream performance.

Heres hoping~

I will call it like I see it. Civil discussions can only exist if you are willing to change your opinion and reason in a logical manner. Like seriously, how can you possibly compare a vet 2 IS2 to a vet 0 Panther in hopes of accomplishing anything besides stalling.

The statement an IS2 at vet 2 can accomplish a similar turret traverse speed to that of a TD/TH is not inaccurate. You are reading to much in to what I am trying to say.

FF is AT dedicated.
Comet is all-rounder. Good vs infantry and vehicles.

So would the following purpose/performance comparisons be approximately correct?

Cromwell = Panzer IV
Comet = T-34/85
Firefly = Panther

At 26.66666666667 it's DPS is only 1 less than that of a ZiS gun. So is the ZiS gun a sniper instead of an Anti-tank gun?

DPS is only a small part of a unit. An actual sniper deals an effective 80 dmg to infantry units every shot, so does that mean that counts as DPS? Burst damage cannot be thought of purely as DPS, since burst damage gives your enemy a fairly large window to do whatever they want before they get hit again.

Anyways, I'm out of this thread. Peace guys!

DPS is only a small part of a unit. An actual sniper deals an effective 80 dmg to infantry units every shot, so does that mean that counts as DPS? Burst damage cannot be thought of purely as DPS, since burst damage gives your enemy a fairly large window to do whatever they want before they get hit again.

But a lot of things in this game have a long reload while not having that high damage. DPS is useful because it allows us to calculate if we can win a fight or not when brawling over a point or objective.

The reason why the firefly is scary is because it's very mobile, has a very high punch to it, and retains the survavbility that high alpha units like the Jackson lack.

So would the following purpose/performance comparisons be approximately correct?

Cromwell = Panzer IV
Comet = T-34/85
Firefly = Panther

Not really, It's more like:

Cromwell = panzer IV
Comet = Panther
Firefly = Jackson

Cromwell favors speed over armor and is like the mid point between a T-34/76 and P4.
Comet is basically the same thing as the panther except with a bit less armor but is better vs infantry.
And the Firefly hits harder but slower then the jackson, and has more health.

And the Firefly hits harder but slower then the jackson, and has more health.

How can something hit harder than a Jackson? More than 200-240 damage? Lol.

How much damage does the Elefant do? So Brits get that with a turret?

How can something hit harder than a Jackson? More than 200-240 damage? Lol.

How much damage does the Elefant do? So Brits get that with a turret?

240 damage. 2 second longer reload. Only 60 range. It's no Elephant.

Were did you find those stats?

Weapon file > tracking > speed_horizontal

------------------------

KT: 12
Tiger:19
IS2: 19
M10: 30
PV: 33
PIV: 35
E8: 35
T34-76/85: 35
Jackson: 35
M4: 40

Also if you want to get picky about the stats he's posting, most mediums and lights have a horizontal turret traverse speed of 40 or above, the Panther has 33.

Don't accuse me of "spreading bullshit"...

I know this wasn't your point, but just say you were wrong and continue.

Back to FF:

-I don't think you are gonna be able to circle strafe the FF but you might have an edge by outmaneuvering to land an extra shot.
-It seems they drop the theme of been a "sniper" tank. If they really wanted a "sniper" it should had had higher penetration and accuracy with that 12s reload.

yeah sure it is counterable nothing to argue about it... but keep in mind it is undoctrinal (compared to the Pak43) and will hardcounter every german tank on the field (imo allies have enough letal counters against Heavy Tanks (vet tds (Sus), Jackson, Firefly, ISU, vet AT Guns).
A 17.pounder + mark target will probably kill a KT in 4-5 shots...
I think the British Forces/ the 17. pounder will be very strong in team games (probably too strong) but well lets see

I have been thinking of reloading this game because I heard the exact same thing, that Allied AT is so effective Axis tanks now seem to be made of paper.

(Have we achieved examples of Poe's Law so quickly? Brits aren't even out yet.)

I just asked a question. More damage output than a Jackson... what came to mind is the dmg per shot on an Elefant. It´s not my problem if you lack the mental capabilities to see the point.

Now to go down on your level: Some dude here already claimed you are not to be taken seriously. I now tend to follow that perception.

No, because the way you worded your question it implied the sherman firefly is better than the elephant. let alone complaining about a unit that you or anyone doesn't know how its going to perform. Most likely changes were made from the alpha.

I just asked a question. More damage output than a Jackson... what came to mind is the dmg per shot on an Elefant. It´s not my problem if you lack the mental capabilities to see the point.

Now to go down on your level: Some dude here already claimed you are not to be taken seriously. I now tend to follow that perception.

Keep in mind it has less penetration than the jackson, and only 240 damage vs 200 damage. Elephant does 320.



With HVAP rounds, the jackson has like way, way higher penetration and same damage as firefly.

Offtopic:
TL;DR: Talking about DPS on AT units = useless
Show Spoiler

You want to know if a Panther can kill a FF on a brawl? This is theorycraft since we don't know exact values and stats of FF. Say it has
Case1: 640HP, 160 armor, ±9s, 240damage, Jackson pen (240-200)
Case2: 800HP, 215 armor (E8), 240damage, AP Jackson pen (300-240)
Panther: 800HP, 320 armor, 7.5s, 160dmg, (260-220)

FF1 needs 4 shots to kill PV. 5.33/6.4 (min/max range) shots on average to pen and kill. ±36s/±48/±57s
FF2 needs 4 shots to kill PV. 4.26/5.33 (min/max range) shots on average to pen and kill. ±36s/±38/±48
PV needs 4 shots to kill FF1. At any range it 100% pens. 30s
PV needs 5 shots to kill FF2. At any range it 100% pens. 37.5s


PD: this is what happens when you are 15min waiting in queue for a game :>

Edit: in red the corrected values.

Show Spoiler

good post. hyped for brits.

I just asked a question. More damage output than a Jackson... what came to mind is the dmg per shot on an Elefant. It´s not my problem if you lack the mental capabilities to see the point.

DPS stands for Damage Per SECOND which is as dependent on damage as is it is on reload. Su-76 and Su-85 have very high DPS as they shoot every 3-4 seconds (su76 close to 3 and su85 close to 4, and this improves especially with vet). Elefant does 320 damage but at vet 0 has 8-9 second reload. Which means su85 and su-76 has DPS close (or that of, if you are that person) of the elefant. (And of course other disadvantages and advantages like range and penning, but not my point) Theres also a bit of aim time as well, and im pretty sure they dont have cooldowns or anything else extending time... But damage output isnt just initial damage per shot. And its not super smart to fight other tanks without support from AT guns, more tanks, etc, and tanks can simply run from a fight by blitzing, smoking, or by baiting, which can also be countered by not falling for bait. Every tank battle is a 1v1 in completely open flat ground in this game, apparently, and having more range cant be negated by the environment or speed. Kappa

Firefly seems to have (and in the alpha, had) 240 damage per hit, but about.., 7-8 seconds of reload - judging from the video of "40 minutes of gameplay from the British Forces". Meaning it has high alpha damage, but not so high DPS, at least compared to other things.

Im pretty sure. Because apparently we all know 100% Firefly will be OP without proper practice and fully knowing the stats...

Offtopic:
TL;DR: Talking about DPS on AT units = useless
Show Spoiler

You want to know if a Panther can kill a FF on a brawl? This is theorycraft since we don't know exact values and stats of FF. Say it has
Case1: 640HP, 160 armor, ±9s, 240damage, Jackson pen (240-200)
Case2: 800HP, 215 armor (E8), 240damage, AP Jackson pen (300-240)
Panther: 800HP, 320 armor, 6.5s, 160dmg, (260-220)

FF1 needs 4 shots to kill PV. 5.33/6.4 (min/max range) shots on average to pen and kill. ±36s/±48/±57s
FF2 needs 4 shots to kill PV. 4.26/5.33 (min/max range) shots on average to pen and kill. ±36s/±38/±48
PV needs 4 shots to kill FF1. At any range it 100% pens. 26s
PV needs 5 shots to kill FF2. At any range it 100% pens. 32.5s


PD: this is what happens when you are 15min waiting in queue for a game :>

Just a small correction; the OKW Panther has a 7.5 second reload. The Ostheer Panther is the one with a 6.5 second reload.