Howitzer play and counterplay
Posts: 168
I have two ideas that I think would improve playing with and against howitzers.
1) Howitzers should only be able to fire into areas with LOS.
Right now, howitzers can fire anywhere on the map. This becomes a problem when OKW bases get battered with very little counterplay, or bases are targeted with retreating squads, without much ability to mitigate damage.
By making it so that howitzers can only fire with LOS, that does 3 things:
a. Recon run has more value.
b. Howitzer timing becomes more important. Instead of just constantly battering positions, choosing when and where to howitzer an area becomes critical. People will be more likely to use it while executing a flank, or maybe in conjuction with multiple other attacks. Ultimately, because LOS becomes a scarce commodity int he late game, timing and tactical consideration becomes more important.
c. Hitting important targets requires risk. Battering an OKW forward HQ will mean that the units that are scouting will be exposed to concentrated OKW positions. Same with the Flak HQ.
Basically, this change makes howitzers more of a tactical tool, as opposed to, "point and click on base structures in the LOS". It forces players to use it in a more meaningful way.
2) Bombing run and recon run abilities should not be in the same doctrines.
Right now, the easiest ways to counter howitzers is recon run + bombing run, with doctrines like CAS. This isn't an enjoyable game mechanic; there's no way to counter this. Separating these abilities out forces players to take a risk in order to counter static positions, in a way that can be prevented.
I think these changes would make the game more enjoyable, because it gaves players more control to counter howitzer bombardments and bombing runs. I also think it'll make OKW and units with recon (ex: pathfinders) more valuable.
Let me know what you think.
Posts: 769 | Subs: 1
Posts: 1891
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
Howitzer firing without line of sight should be really inaccurate.
Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?
Posts: 1891
Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?
This too.
Posts: 2470
Howitzer firing without line of sight should be really inaccurate.
my response would be that you can still get lucky and hit stuff (like the current B4). i'm not sure how much a problem that is though.
Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?
can they do this? it's an interesting concept at least.
Posts: 412
It was too weak before and now its just annoying to have almost 0 counterplay as OKW and always having to have Jaegar Armor or CAS as Ostheer.
Luckily not many people use the ostheer cannon because Soviets also have very little counterplay as well.
Posts: 101
Just remove static artillery.
I agree.
At the very least they should require LOS.
Posts: 2561
Posts: 104
Posts: 830
That's way too much. I would never use them if that was the case.
That's the point
Posts: 77
Posts: 118
I will admit it is annoying as hell when one unit is instawiped while sitting there etc; but I don't feel half as bad when my Sturmtiger is doing the wiping. If my entire army is in one place and gets nailed by a barrage I don't think 'Nerf artillery!'; I realise it was actually pretty poor play by me to have it gathered up in that situation.
You shouldn't need LoS to fire. You've scouted the position and so know what you're shooting at. In terms of range, in 1v1 shooting the base sector should be allowed for reasons above, but it can be extensively annoying.
OKW counterplay is difficult 1v1 as it requires almost definite sacrifice of a tank, or a risky assault followed by a stuka. 2v2 and up it is usually fine, don't complain about trucks being bombed: OKW forward positions should absolutely be allowed to be targeted (where base sectors are often out of reach); it's the price you pay for the shenanigans you get to employ. If I deploy my trucks outside my base sector I am aware that I am opening them up to be easily barraged (and the more forward the truck, the more accurate the barrage on it).
Move around your stuff in the FoW. The luftwaffe didn't forget where London was each night of the blitz and need to recon it first
Posts: 760
There should be punishment for being routed from the field. If the player has invested 600 MP, which is a hefty amount and difficult to save for in the mid game, he should have the ability to extensively punish routing blobs from the field by bombarding the enemy base. Retreats should be as tactical as your advances, if you've blobbed up your forces and A-moved then had it routed, you deserve to have it hit by the barrage on your base and take the increased MP bleed for it.this argument is awful you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in their bases, plain and simple
I will admit it is annoying as hell when one unit is instawiped while sitting there etc; but I don't feel half as bad when my Sturmtiger is doing the wiping. If my entire army is in one place and gets nailed by a barrage I don't think 'Nerf artillery!'; I realise it was actually pretty poor play by me to have it gathered up in that situation.
You shouldn't need LoS to fire. You've scouted the position and so know what you're shooting at. In terms of range, in 1v1 shooting the base sector should be allowed for reasons above, but it can be extensively annoying.
OKW counterplay is difficult 1v1 as it requires almost definite sacrifice of a tank, or a risky assault followed by a stuka. 2v2 and up it is usually fine, don't complain about trucks being bombed: OKW forward positions should absolutely be allowed to be targeted (where base sectors are often out of reach); it's the price you pay for the shenanigans you get to employ. If I deploy my trucks outside my base sector I am aware that I am opening them up to be easily barraged (and the more forward the truck, the more accurate the barrage on it).
Move around your stuff in the FoW. The luftwaffe didn't forget where London was each night of the blitz and need to recon it first
Posts: 118
this argument is awful you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in their bases, plain and simple
You're correct, you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in the base. I wouldn't recommend having your entire army in your base at once
Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1
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Posts: 118
Give OKW so actual counters, and I think the ML-20 would be fine. The LefH deffo needs a scatter reduction or something else to make it more attractive than the ML-20 because right now it's worse in every way except shells fired.
Doesn't it have a faster cooldown on the barrage?
Plus we all know LefH way better with vet ability counter-barrage
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Posts: 118
There are some terrible ideas in here which would practically stop the use of arty. Both guns need a minor adjustments but downright nerfing them to removal is not good.
You really think you should be allowed to fire howitzers into the FoW?
Insanity
+1
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