Howitzer play and counterplay

Right now, playing with and against howitzer is not fun because of a lack of counterplay and control, and does not feel balanced, especially against OKW.

I have two ideas that I think would improve playing with and against howitzers.

1) Howitzers should only be able to fire into areas with LOS.

Right now, howitzers can fire anywhere on the map. This becomes a problem when OKW bases get battered with very little counterplay, or bases are targeted with retreating squads, without much ability to mitigate damage.

By making it so that howitzers can only fire with LOS, that does 3 things:

a. Recon run has more value.

b. Howitzer timing becomes more important. Instead of just constantly battering positions, choosing when and where to howitzer an area becomes critical. People will be more likely to use it while executing a flank, or maybe in conjuction with multiple other attacks. Ultimately, because LOS becomes a scarce commodity int he late game, timing and tactical consideration becomes more important.

c. Hitting important targets requires risk. Battering an OKW forward HQ will mean that the units that are scouting will be exposed to concentrated OKW positions. Same with the Flak HQ.

Basically, this change makes howitzers more of a tactical tool, as opposed to, "point and click on base structures in the LOS". It forces players to use it in a more meaningful way.

2) Bombing run and recon run abilities should not be in the same doctrines.

Right now, the easiest ways to counter howitzers is recon run + bombing run, with doctrines like CAS. This isn't an enjoyable game mechanic; there's no way to counter this. Separating these abilities out forces players to take a risk in order to counter static positions, in a way that can be prevented.

I think these changes would make the game more enjoyable, because it gaves players more control to counter howitzer bombardments and bombing runs. I also think it'll make OKW and units with recon (ex: pathfinders) more valuable.

Let me know what you think.

Requiring line of sight would probably be a good move. Another thought I recently had was making it so that howitzers can't be built inside your base territory. It would bring them closer to the active battlefield and force a player to dedicate resources to protecting it. However, that would be hard to apply to mobile artillery.

Howitzer firing without line of sight should be really inaccurate.

Howitzer firing without line of sight should be really inaccurate.

Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?

Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?

This too.

Howitzer firing without line of sight should be really inaccurate.

my response would be that you can still get lucky and hit stuff (like the current B4). i'm not sure how much a problem that is though.

Why not this and firing without LOS makes it only fire like, 4 shells?

can they do this? it's an interesting concept at least.

Just remove static artillery. It adds nothing to the game and the role is easily filled by stock artillery in each faction (except USF ) British artillery is OK because it has smoke and is part of their design.

It was too weak before and now its just annoying to have almost 0 counterplay as OKW and always having to have Jaegar Armor or CAS as Ostheer.

Luckily not many people use the ostheer cannon because Soviets also have very little counterplay as well.

Just remove static artillery.

I agree.

At the very least they should require LOS.

That's way too much. I would never use them if that was the case.

Just scale the range depending on the map, so that if you want to hit base, or even a conservatively positioned forward base you have to build it in a position vulnerable to being attacked. And make Stuka unable to hit base sector so if you want your howie to survive you build it in base but at the penalty of not being able to hit a lot of the map

That's way too much. I would never use them if that was the case.

That's the point

Could just give infantry the flares the british troops get, which allows the howitzer to still fire on static positions reliably but needs infantry to mark and activate the barrage. This would prevent HQ sector barraged but still allow a productive push to an okw truck maybe to get some dmg in.

There should be punishment for being routed from the field. If the player has invested 600 MP, which is a hefty amount and difficult to save for in the mid game, he should have the ability to extensively punish routing blobs from the field by bombarding the enemy base. Retreats should be as tactical as your advances, if you've blobbed up your forces and A-moved then had it routed, you deserve to have it hit by the barrage on your base and take the increased MP bleed for it.

I will admit it is annoying as hell when one unit is instawiped while sitting there etc; but I don't feel half as bad when my Sturmtiger is doing the wiping. If my entire army is in one place and gets nailed by a barrage I don't think 'Nerf artillery!'; I realise it was actually pretty poor play by me to have it gathered up in that situation.

You shouldn't need LoS to fire. You've scouted the position and so know what you're shooting at. In terms of range, in 1v1 shooting the base sector should be allowed for reasons above, but it can be extensively annoying.

OKW counterplay is difficult 1v1 as it requires almost definite sacrifice of a tank, or a risky assault followed by a stuka. 2v2 and up it is usually fine, don't complain about trucks being bombed: OKW forward positions should absolutely be allowed to be targeted (where base sectors are often out of reach); it's the price you pay for the shenanigans you get to employ. If I deploy my trucks outside my base sector I am aware that I am opening them up to be easily barraged (and the more forward the truck, the more accurate the barrage on it).

Move around your stuff in the FoW. The luftwaffe didn't forget where London was each night of the blitz and need to recon it first

There should be punishment for being routed from the field. If the player has invested 600 MP, which is a hefty amount and difficult to save for in the mid game, he should have the ability to extensively punish routing blobs from the field by bombarding the enemy base. Retreats should be as tactical as your advances, if you've blobbed up your forces and A-moved then had it routed, you deserve to have it hit by the barrage on your base and take the increased MP bleed for it.

I will admit it is annoying as hell when one unit is instawiped while sitting there etc; but I don't feel half as bad when my Sturmtiger is doing the wiping. If my entire army is in one place and gets nailed by a barrage I don't think 'Nerf artillery!'; I realise it was actually pretty poor play by me to have it gathered up in that situation.

You shouldn't need LoS to fire. You've scouted the position and so know what you're shooting at. In terms of range, in 1v1 shooting the base sector should be allowed for reasons above, but it can be extensively annoying.

OKW counterplay is difficult 1v1 as it requires almost definite sacrifice of a tank, or a risky assault followed by a stuka. 2v2 and up it is usually fine, don't complain about trucks being bombed: OKW forward positions should absolutely be allowed to be targeted (where base sectors are often out of reach); it's the price you pay for the shenanigans you get to employ. If I deploy my trucks outside my base sector I am aware that I am opening them up to be easily barraged (and the more forward the truck, the more accurate the barrage on it).

Move around your stuff in the FoW. The luftwaffe didn't forget where London was each night of the blitz and need to recon it first

this argument is awful you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in their bases, plain and simple

this argument is awful you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in their bases, plain and simple

You're correct, you shouldn't be able to wipe peoples armies in the base. I wouldn't recommend having your entire army in your base at once

Howitzers are fine. Only just ML-20 shouldn't shooting to enemy's base area.

Give OKW so actual counters, and I think the ML-20 would be fine. The LefH deffo needs a scatter reduction or something else to make it more attractive than the ML-20 because right now it's worse in every way except shells fired.

Give OKW so actual counters, and I think the ML-20 would be fine. The LefH deffo needs a scatter reduction or something else to make it more attractive than the ML-20 because right now it's worse in every way except shells fired.

Doesn't it have a faster cooldown on the barrage?

Plus we all know LefH way better with vet ability counter-barrage

There are some terrible ideas in here which would practically stop the use of arty. Both guns need a minor adjustments but downright nerfing them to removal is not good.

There are some terrible ideas in here which would practically stop the use of arty. Both guns need a minor adjustments but downright nerfing them to removal is not good.

You really think you should be allowed to fire howitzers into the FoW?
Insanity

+1