Snipers

Snipers can be game breaking in certain game modes and may need some fine tuning.

Rageposting

I guess we need to wait for brits to see how different faction snipers balanced in life version.

Lets say the allies field 3 snipers total. Thats 6 total sniper models. Even if the axis field the same number of sniper teams, they are still at a 2:1 disadvantage. The counter to a sniper should be another sniper. Relying on poor sniper-play or RNG mortar is weak.

Lets say the allies field 3 snipers total. Thats 6 total sniper models. Even if the axis field the same number of sniper teams, they are still at a 2:1 disadvantage. The counter to a sniper should be another sniper. Relying on poor sniper-play or RNG mortar is weak.

How about getting something like a clowncar or a 222 as sniper counter kappa?

The counter to a sniper should be another sniper.

Why?

Do you counter mortars with mortars?
Do you counter AT guns with AT guns?
Do you counter HMGs with HMG?
Why sniper should be counter to another sniper?

You're countering them with long flanks so you can jump on their backs, you counter them with light vehicle chases, you can counter them with another sniper, but you shouldn't.

Sniper wars are relic(pun intended) of the coh1 past, they have never existed in coh2 and never should.
Model count here isn't relevant, sniper that aims and shoots faster and recloaks faster wins. This is ost sniper who can also one shot 2 or more models with vet ability.

All snipers should have 80/82hp, 1 model but different abilities.

Relic have changed OST sniper to 82 so it won't die to random mortar hit, but SU snipers still suffer from random wipes all the time.

Tbh i think both snipers are currently fine.

And you can have your sniper vs sniper war when the brits get here

Why?

Do you counter mortars with mortars?
Do you counter AT guns with AT guns?
Do you counter HMGs with HMG?
Why sniper should be counter to another sniper?

You're countering them with long flanks so you can jump on their backs, you counter them with light vehicle chases, you can counter them with another sniper, but you shouldn't.

Sniper wars are relic(pun intended) of the coh1 past, they have never existed in coh2 and never should.
Model count here isn't relevant, sniper that aims and shoots faster and recloaks faster wins. This is ost sniper who can also one shot 2 or more models with vet ability.

I think his point was... Soviet snipers can be used like this to counter Ost snipers so its one-way.


But id rather fight the current soviet sniper with 2 models with my 4 man squads, than a 1 model sniper that fires faster with 4 man squads.


So yeah theyre both fine as they are.

As in the million other sniper threads it could be fixed by giving the ostheer sniper higher received accuracy. But yes, random mortar wipes happen frequently to soviet sniper teams.

I hate snipers

I hate snipers, but are people now seriously complaining about the soviet snipers? They shoot like every solar eclipse and they pretty much die to a summer breeze.

Compared to Herr König and his Karabiner 98 Kürz Scoped rifle, they are a joke in this game.

Eh 2+ Sniper players have a certain cheese element to them where you have to retreat squads all the time since 2 salvos result in a wipe. But they also sacrifice field presence early, cost a lost to reenforce, and if you lose them it sets you back a lot. It's up to the Axis player to exploit that which can be harder on some maps but doable.

Tbh i think both snipers are currently fine.

And you can have your sniper vs sniper war when the brits get here

Not really considering brit sniper camo and aim time.
Its one way fight with oh sniper being victorious unless caught in the open.

I think his point was... Soviet snipers can be used like this to counter Ost snipers so its one-way.

If we consider shoot out in the open then yea.
Otherwise, ost sniper rof and camo gives him advantage, sov sniper is more forgiving when caught off guard, but his all stats are inferior in cover sniper hunt.

But id rather fight the current soviet sniper with 2 models with my 4 man squads, than a 1 model sniper that fires faster with 4 man squads.


So yeah theyre both fine as they are.

And this is exactly why they both are NOT fine and why ost sniper is insanely overpowered against brits.

What makes you believe that sniper shooting every 10 seconds on 4 men squads and sniper doing so every 5 seconds on 4 men squads that cost MORE to reinforce is fine?

Its pure insanity from Alex, but I wouldn't expect it of you.

(offtopic: didn't we played against each other few days ago? I think it was you)

Mirror them so there's no complaining about whats, what. Strategy and micro will carry you through without the need of differences and bickering about balance.

Not really considering brit sniper camo and aim time.
Its one way fight with oh sniper being victorious unless caught in the open.

Ostheer sniper will prob be on the field before the brit one, giving the brit player the chance to basically not fire his sniper until the Ost sniper (which will prob have been trigger happy) is in its sights, Thus instantly countering it.

If we consider shoot out in the open then yea.
Otherwise, ost sniper rof and camo gives him advantage, sov sniper is more forgiving when caught off guard, but his all stats are inferior in cover sniper hunt.

Yeah but this is because when they desgined it, the sov sniper hunted smaller squads. + the sov sniper is attached to the M3 which is more designed for countering the Ost sniper.

And this is exactly why they both are NOT fine and why ost sniper is insanely overpowered against brits.

Well Brits get 5 man squads after a small upgrade. But i can see the Ost sniper being effective yeah. But like i said in the first paragraph if the brit sniper is smart he will be aware to use his sniper to counter the ost one on its first shot/appearance.

What makes you believe that sniper shooting every 10 seconds on 4 men squads and sniper doing so every 5 seconds on 4 men squads that cost MORE to reinforce is fine?

Theyre not 4 man squads for long. + cant blow up light vehicles.

Its pure insanity from Alex, but I wouldn't expect it of you.

Usually is

(offtopic: didn't we played against each other few days ago? I think it was you)

Probably i dont really pay attention to names. Yolo que alot.

I think they are fine now, but if you reduced the soviet sniper to a 1 man squad, then yes have them the same ROF and whatnot

Serious suggestion:

If we just remove snipers from the game, would COH2 be a fundamentally worse game than it is now?

No?

Then what are you waiting for

I've always found snipers to be an interesting idea. At least from my experience in 1v1's, the entire early game will revolve around that fragile unit, and if either side inflicts too much damage (either the sniper dying or the sniper inflicting too many casualties) then the losing player is almost completely out of the game. I personally really like that idea. It makes for an pretty close and interesting game, compared to just basic infantry running around shooting each other, with plenty of time to react (to make sure not so many losses are piling up).

Plus, when another sniper is introduced, it makes the game so much more unforgiving and intense. Now instead of being the dominant power, the Wehrmacht sniper cannot engage anyone without having the security of knowing that the Soviet sniper team is somewhere too far away or just shot, and since their team has 2 men in the squad they can afford to be a lot more aggressive since a mess up won’t mean certain death. This means that the balance of power is now shifted to the Red Army player, where before it was to the Wehrmacht. Since the German one comes faster he can probably get to vet 1 relatively early, which now means he will counter the Red Army team, thus swinging the balance of power back to the German player. For me personally, this makes for an interesting battle of micro, in which almost no RNG is really involved, meaning player skill is the only factor. I enjoy the constantly swinging balance of power and therefore aggression, because, basically, at any moment a single round fired could win the game.

With all that aside, I can see in team games that the Wehrmacht sniper could be a problem because he can run all along the front getting free kills with no way of safely catching him. Also sniper spam is always really frustrating, maybe our buddies at Relic can put a cap of 1 on them.

delete snipers, save coh2

Serious suggestion:

If we just remove snipers from the game, would COH2 be a fundamentally worse game than it is now?

No?

Then what are you waiting for

Well, we could just as well remove sov T1 from the game.

M3s are keep getting nerfed, only unit worth putting inside is getting nerfed.

Penals are garbage since forever, few hipsters using them do not make them valid meta choice and flame nerf will kill them again.

If not for snipers, there isn't a reason to go for T1, ever, you give up HMGs, ATGs and mortars for ability to bleed infantry early game well.

love the idea... we would see some good old 1v1 sniper engagements

(maybe the sniper engagement will return with the british sniper)