Issues with OKW

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Those are changes that affect 1v1 as well. My point stands, deal with it in team games or play 1v1.

Those are changes that affect 1v1 as well. My point stands, deal with it in team games or play 1v1.

Who builds the caches in 1vs1 for OKW? Who gets 2 KTs in 1vs1?

Who builds the caches in 1vs1 for OKW? Who gets 2 KTs in 1vs1?

1 KT in 1v1 usually autowins you the game

Who builds the caches in 1vs1 for OKW? Who gets 2 KTs in 1vs1?

Noone which is exactly the point. Deal with them in team games.

Changes for OKW:

• Remove Munitions to Fuel Conversion
  
  This has been bugging me for over a year since WFA came out. OKW isn't as fuel starved as people think it is. Pumas, Panthers, Jagdpanzers, all come out very early for OKW if they convert. Jagdpanzers can come out earlier than a Sherman if a USF player like me builds all officers (like how it should be played).
  
  An indirect issue with this has to do with map control as well. If the Allies have both fuel points, OKW can keep both munitions points and still manage.
  
  If OKW was a 100% FU faction, this would be very overpowered because they'd have tanks coming out earlier than everyone. However the issue isn't as blatant and is hiding because OKW is at 66% FU. So tanks don't come out earlier than other factions, but they do come out at the same time. For a faction that was designed on superior tanks than every other faction, this is a staggering issue. OKW should have tanks coming out after every other faction does, not at the same time. Cheap OKW HQs exasperates this issue; I will elaborate on this.
  
  Another issue is in addition to OKW tanks coming out at proper timings, they aren't penalized enough for losing tanks. They have access to beasts like Jagdtigers, King Tigers, Panthers, Sturmtigers, Jagdpanzers, but losing them doesn't matter much because replacing them isn't too difficult. OKW shouldn't have the Soviet and Allies mentality of throwing away tanks and still managing to win.
  
  All you need is the good old munitions to fuel conversion and everything is fine and dandy for the OKW. All they need are Panzershreks anyways.
  
  
• Increase HQ Costs by 50% (300 MP + 60 FU)
  
  You know how MU --> FU conversion nullifies the whole low fuel concept for OKW? It is exasperated by the fact that their HQs are so cheap. Just 200 MP and 40 FU for Mech and Medic HQs and 80 FU for the Flak HQ. Compared to Ostheer, USF, UKF, and USSR, its too cheap.
  
  This also creates issues with risk vs. reward. OKW can manage to be risky with their HQs because there isn't much fuel at stake. Yes, one can argue there is more at stake than just the 200 MP and 40 FU, so this is more of a smaller issue but still an issue that needs to be fixed.
  
  Some people say that their HQs should be cheaper because they are starved faction. This isn't a reasonable justification for cheap HQs. What is the point of fuel starving a faction because they have access to stronger units if you are going to make their techs cheaper?
  
  This essentially gets tanks out really quickly. Do the math, USSR for example requires more fuel to get its T34 out than a Jagdpanzer.
  
  That being said, I want this to be an intellectual discussion please without the "fanboy" "OP" cards with little to no reasoning behind statements. This isn't a flame thread, this is after analyzing the game after 2,000 hours of gameplay. I provided my reasons, so you guys give reasons to why you agree or disagree. And specifics please.

First of all, Can you please point out what strong unit OKW has which it makes it superior to Ost for example? let's see; KT? it's been a while you'll see a lot less KTs since it was nerfed hard, plus everyone knows how to deal with it and not only that the counters got buffed, so that it can now be countered properly enough so that OKW player doesn't want to save/spend all-in fuel for such an expensive unit and so on, JT, well that's very situational, why should I go for JT for such a price and low mobility vs factions with numerous tanks and lots of mobility! it can barely makes sense expect when u're up against ISU vs good player, other units? like inf, falls? the only favor falls do to u is to bleed your mp to death and losing 2 models instantly to a ptrs volley. obers? everyone knows they are for sure not cost effective anymore for the time they arrive and cost. just letting you know, u know obers that arrive at 10 mins lose to infantry section with bren guns 1v1?

Like seriously just tell me WHAT OKW UNIT IS SO OP THAT YOU DEMAND IT TO GET NERFED MORE.

Like who doesn't know how broken OKW is atm that you've done a very good job if u can survive the early game with such weak AI power you have VS OPPONENT OF SAME SKILL AS YOU.

you don't believe me? go play some OKW 1v1/2v2 and you'll see.


also, that 40 fuel you mentioned should be increased to 60 you forgot to divide it to 0.66, and if you happen to do so, what would be the answer? 40/0.66=?

And since I thought you are most probably not very experienced playing with OKW, i tell you something. and it is a VERY IMPORTANT point. As OKW you can't afford to lose you tank, cause you can't replace it. Can you do that with other factions!! At least one good thing if you play OKW is you get better micoring your tanks cause you learn they are not replaceable.

Btw this thread reminded me of the guy who made that faction comparison thing by Relic who thought OKW is the most aggressive faction!!

I can see conversion problematic in some ways.

...I can turn in to fuel, so I can produce insane amount of vehicles.

I am considering using this awesome quote of the year as my signature !

Can't we simply establish the rule that units are not to be balanced due to problems that only arise in games bigger than 1v1? Imagine you just add a 10v10 mode in League of Legends and Champs now scale up to level 30 instead of 18. Suddenly, certain mechanics that are very balanced become extremely op and annoying, although they aren't really a problem in 5v5 and max level 18, the standard game mode.

Every slight advantage gets amplified exponentially in team games. Please don't balance units around it.

That is an admission of lack of imagination and ingenuity.

Even among the "top 200" players in COH2 charts there are about 8 times more people playing 4v4 than 1v1. At lower levels the numbers probably skew even more heavily. COH2 is paid for by the team players so it makes marketing sense to care about those modes. Can they be balanced and make 1v1 balanced? I have no idea. I also know that ignoring them means you will never find out. Can they be made more balanced without affecting 1v1? many have made some pretty good suggestions that sounded like they would help.

Larger formats in COH1 were not this imbalanced.

Congrats to North for the most epic ridiculous post of the year.
You made my day .... nerf OKW ,conversion OP OMG ,lol !!!!!
OKW can literally hold the whole map and still get less resources from any other faction.
Sad those 2k hours are wasted and you still havent got a smell from the game.

I am considering using this awesome quote of the year as my signature !

I'd gladly listen your opinion about late-game fuel (when you already have schrecks/LMGs/G43 but no idea why you cut hald of the sentence) for OKW in 2v2+ cause whenever I play or watch replays, OKW gets many vehicles very easily (as a many I consider for example 3JPIVs/or not many but higly expensive like 2 KTs).

Watching replays isn't a replacement for actually playing the game. Converting to fuel carries extreme risk while converting to munitions does not (well as long as your doing it much later into the game). Again; you can never have to much munitions, but you can easily popcap yourself as OKW.

I recommend playing some more games as OKW before making such declarations about what is possible.

Watching replays isn't a replacement for actually playing the game. Converting to fuel carries extreme risk while converting to munitions does not (well as long as your doing it much later into the game). Again; you can never have to much munitions, but you can easily popcap yourself as OKW.

I recommend playing some more games as OKW before making such declarations about what is possible.

I already showed you 2 high-level replays with huge fuel float for OKW.

I already showed you 2 high-level replays with huge fuel float for OKW.

You showed me 2 high level replays that lasted an hour+ and were the players were popcapped for most of the game. When you are popcapped you float fuel because you can't spend it on anything. But when you are popcapped you CAN still spend munitions.

I already showed you 2 high-level replays with huge fuel float for OKW.

Allies will still have more vehicules than OKW, and easier to replace

Cause you like replays

Allies will still have more vehicules than OKW, and easier to replace

Cause you like replays

I'm talking about 2v2 mostly and you show me 1v1

I'm talking about 2v2 mostly and you show me 1v1

Nobody gives a fuck about game modes beyond 2v2.

Nobody gives a fuck about game modes beyond 2v2.

And I'm taling about 2v2, not 4v4

I already showed you 2 high-level replays with huge fuel float for OKW.

You can't use that game as evidence that OKW somehow is OP due to resourcing and conversion.

Giap and Gaddafi not only held their fuel for the entirety of the 1 hour match, they also contested and cut off ours. The only reason Giap could afford those many tanks was because of their map control, especially the munitions, allowing him to get a decent amount of income at a severe cost of him barely throwing nades, upgrading units, and using ablities.

You can't use that game as evidence that OKW somehow is OP due to resourcing and conversion.

Giap and Gaddafi not only held their fuel for the entirety of the 1 hour match, they also contested and cut off ours. The only reason Giap could afford those many tanks was because of their map control, especially the munitions, allowing him to get a decent amount of income at a severe cost of him barely throwing nades, upgrading units, and using ablities.

Well, I've never claimed that OP and you won't find such evidence.
I just said, sometimes it might be troubling because you can bust ammo to 80+/min which is insane.

Well, I've never claimed that OP and you won't find such evidence.
I just said, sometimes it might be troubling because you can bust ammo to 80+/min which is insane.

Removing conversion and simply adding in Opal trucks (IE more expensive caches) would bee fun, but I doubt you would support that.

I miss the Vampyr halftrack