Grenadier Pop Cap
19 Aug 2015, 09:14 AM
#21
Posts: 1439
How about don't fix what ain't broken?
19 Aug 2015, 09:16 AM
#22
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
Grens pop is fine.
They are most cost effective squad in the game, greatly outclassing conscripts once you can afford LMGs.
Grens pop is fine.
They are most cost effective squad in the game, greatly outclassing conscripts once you can afford LMGs.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Aug 2015, 09:27 AM
#23
Posts: 830
If anything should be altered, it is the size of the squad. 4 man squads are way to fragile to get wiped on retreat. Same goes for Panzergrenadiers, get wiped on retreat way to often 
if both are increased to 5 men, dps should remain the same and pop cap for the panzergrenadiers should be upped by 1. Gren pop cap should remain the same.
If this is to much to be asked for, squad spacing should be altered asap. Same goes for allied squads, how many times I haven't had my OKW p4 vet 3 wipe entire squads with one shot, I just can't count it anymore.
if both are increased to 5 men, dps should remain the same and pop cap for the panzergrenadiers should be upped by 1. Gren pop cap should remain the same.
If this is to much to be asked for, squad spacing should be altered asap. Same goes for allied squads, how many times I haven't had my OKW p4 vet 3 wipe entire squads with one shot, I just can't count it anymore.
19 Aug 2015, 10:09 AM
#24
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
If anything should be altered, it is the size of the squad. 4 man squads are way to fragile to get wiped on retreat. Same goes for Panzergrenadiers, get wiped on retreat way to often
Don't retreat with last man on sliver of health
if both are increased to 5 men, dps should remain the same and pop cap for the panzergrenadiers should be upped by 1. Gren pop cap should remain the same.
If they became 5 man, DPS would have to drop down or cost would have to skyrocket.
But don't stress yourself over it, it will never happen.
If this is to much to be asked for, squad spacing should be altered asap. Same goes for allied squads, how many times I haven't had my OKW p4 vet 3 wipe entire squads with one shot, I just can't count it anymore.
This is the only issue, it always was, squad bunching since cover fix.
Relic can't fix it for months, random modders fixed it in a day.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Aug 2015, 10:17 AM
#25
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
It's fine. Even if you build 5 grnes, the difference is 5 popcap. The one and only problem with grens is their insta-wipe potential which applies to all infantry squads. I don't think any of their stats needs a change.
19 Aug 2015, 10:52 AM
#26
Posts: 830
Don't retreat with last man on sliver of health
I never do that, shermans can wipe them pretty easily with even 3 men left.
If they became 5 man, DPS would have to drop down or cost would have to skyrocket.
But don't stress yourself over it, it will never happen.
Lol what? They get an extra man, but stay the same damage wise. Which still means they deal damage very well but have a bit more survivability. Don't see how their current dps should be lowered when they get an extra man, they still would do the damage of 4 man, but have an extra model to be more survivable.
Lol seeing your blatant bias never gets old katti. Cost would have to skyrocket hahahah, you're delusional
19 Aug 2015, 11:00 AM
#27
Posts: 2819
I don't think grens are spammed.
3 max 4 squads / game isn't spam, right?
You need infantry to push, cap and defend, so I don't think that's considered spam.
OT; I think the grens are in the right place.
3 max 4 squads / game isn't spam, right?
You need infantry to push, cap and defend, so I don't think that's considered spam.
OT; I think the grens are in the right place.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
19 Aug 2015, 11:08 AM
#28
Posts: 26
LEAVE IT AS IT IS.
Cookie smokes thread so relic won't find it
19 Aug 2015, 11:20 AM
#29
Posts: 484
I can understand reinforcement cost when they have lmg, but without it, that cost bleeds mp a lot.
AND more pop cap for lower mp income.
Hmm...
The reinforce costs have a clear relationship with the overall unit cost. Essentially, you can reinforce for 50% of the MP to buy a new unit fresh.
Thus, Rifles are 280MP for 5 models = 56 MP/model new, 50% discount for reinforce = 28
Conscripts are 240MP for 6 models = 40 MP/model new, 50% discount for reinforce = 20
Grens are 240MP for 4 models = 60 MP/model new, 50% discount for reinforce = 30
So I don't expect you will see any change in reinforce costs separate from a change in the unit cost.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
19 Aug 2015, 11:31 AM
#30
1 
Posts: 453
At the beginning of CoH2, Gren was like the old vCoH Gren, too much powerful AI squad despite their cost.
Some people didn't even upgrade lmg42 and spam them because kar98 itself was enough.
But they've been changed and balanced through the several patches. Their range and LMG effectiveness, body armor, and the latest rifle grenade...
They are now in the good place.
But this still remains like the poison
At the patch note of April 24th, 2014
The days of spamming grens was gone long time ago, and everybody loves to do combined arms as a Ostheer.
And this, 4-man squad, already suffering high reinforcement cost because of the squad size, should suffer the biggest pop cap among the backbone infantry unit of all factions?
Somebody might say 'Because your LMG...', but I don't thinks that's enough reason for Grens to have 7 pop cap.
I heard British faction's tommy will have 4-man in its squad but later five
(but I don't know about the pop cap)
But when ALL other faction enjoys the benefit of survivability of larger squad,
Grens should cost less pop cap than now, and adequate number would be 6.
Share your thoughts on here
P.S. Sorry about the stupid misspelling on the topic name
P.P.S Thank you for correcting the name, FichtenMoped!
Give this man a MEDAL!!! +1 agree with you
19 Aug 2015, 13:00 PM
#31
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Lol what? They get an extra man, but stay the same damage wise. Which still means they deal damage very well but have a bit more survivability. Don't see how their current dps should be lowered when they get an extra man, they still would do the damage of 4 man, but have an extra model to be more survivable.
Lol seeing your blatant bias never gets old katti. Cost would have to skyrocket hahahah, you're delusional
Clueless posts never get old.
This is the moment someone needs to tell you to stop posting. Think and re-read again what you wrote.
Gren: 80HP > 4models > 91RA = 352
Conscript: 80HP > 6m > 1.087RA = 442
Gren with 5 man = 440
You want a squad with more dps, effective equal HP pools and better escaling costing the same? Yeah sure. Asking for 5 man grens, is like asking for native AT nades, DP and molotovs after teching for conscripts.
What you are asking for is basically giving them 20% RA and not expecting a single thing removed from them.
PD: once upon a time, there was something called assymetrical balance. Units RoF, DPS and survivability were balanced upon the 4/6 rule. But everything changed, when the nations of WFA attacked...
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 Aug 2015, 15:33 PM
#32
Posts: 830
You want a squad with more dps,
Where did I state I want a squad with more dps? I said very clearly, I want them to add another man to the gren squad, but keep their damage at the level of a 4 men squad.
I forgot to state that I want them to keep the same HP, yet with another model, they don't get wiped so easily like they sometimes do. 4 men total hp points, yet with a 5th man so they have survivability like every other mainline infantry squad.
What you are asking for is basically giving them 20% RA and not expecting a single thing removed from them.
Again, where did I state that they should not have a single thing removed? A cost increase for the squad if there is a 5th man added is fine, but not like katikof sugested (cost should skyrocket bla bla).
I understand that you wish to make a name for yourself, but there are more effective ways. For example, what Katikof does works far better than pretending to be a clever one and trying to twists people's words into something they are not.
19 Aug 2015, 15:41 PM
#33
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Grens have more DPS then cons.
Which means 5th men without price change means you'd have squad as durable as cons, with much better scaling, no side upgrades and no doctrinal weapon upgrade with more base dps costing as much as cons.
Basic reading comprehension.
You really deny what elchino7 just told you?
I refuse to believe someone would be that stupid, so that leaves bias heavier then black hole, which leads to another thing-you calling others biased without having a slightest clue on the stats or implications of changes.
Hilarious.
In case you are really too stupid to see it yourself, what you are asking here is the same as having T34/76 cost as much as P4 without any stat changes and expect it to be balanced magically.
edit:
Cruzz actually made much better analogy.
Which means 5th men without price change means you'd have squad as durable as cons, with much better scaling, no side upgrades and no doctrinal weapon upgrade with more base dps costing as much as cons.
Basic reading comprehension.
You really deny what elchino7 just told you?
I refuse to believe someone would be that stupid, so that leaves bias heavier then black hole, which leads to another thing-you calling others biased without having a slightest clue on the stats or implications of changes.
Hilarious.
In case you are really too stupid to see it yourself, what you are asking here is the same as having T34/76 cost as much as P4 without any stat changes and expect it to be balanced magically.
edit:
Cruzz actually made much better analogy.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Aug 2015, 15:43 PM
#34
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
Where did I state I want a squad with more dps? I said very clearly, I want them to add another man to the gren squad, but keep their damage at the level of a 4 men squad.
I forgot to state that I want them to keep the same HP, yet with another model, they don't get wiped so easily like they sometimes do. 4 men total hp points, yet with a 5th man so they have survivability like every other mainline infantry squad.
Again, where did I state that they should not have a single thing removed? A cost increase for the squad if there is a 5th man added is fine, but not like katikof sugested (cost should skyrocket bla bla).
Do you know what a 5-man grensquad with the dps of a 4-man one is called?
19 Aug 2015, 15:44 PM
#35
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
I never do that, shermans can wipe them pretty easily with even 3 men left.
Lol what? They get an extra man, but stay the same damage wise. Which still means they deal damage very well but have a bit more survivability. Don't see how their current dps should be lowered when they get an extra man, they still would do the damage of 4 man, but have an extra model to be more survivable.
Lol seeing your blatant bias never gets old katti. Cost would have to skyrocket hahahah, you're delusional
but even if the remain the same damage , they will still have more hp (5th memeber = +80 hp)
so it will buff ostheer even more , i think ostheer is now completely fine with tons of buffs.
Only problem as ostheer i see isquadrush but we all know this think is a bit OP
19 Aug 2015, 17:01 PM
#36
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
1- When i said "...a squad with more dps..." i was making the comparison to conscripts.
2- You never mentioned an increase on cost. So you want Rifles 2.0 for OH? As OH, i wouldn't want that (if that also means receveing the same treatment as Rifles regarding vets and upgrades)
3- If you want the same HP with a higher amount of models, well you'll get positive RA (i don't think you want Conscripts 2.0)
At this point, there would be almost no "excuse" on leaving SU sniper with the actual RoF (if we are gonna make main line infantry 5 man squads). This would just lead into people complaining that support weapons need a 5th man also.
At the end of the day "don't fix what ain't broke".
2- You never mentioned an increase on cost. So you want Rifles 2.0 for OH? As OH, i wouldn't want that (if that also means receveing the same treatment as Rifles regarding vets and upgrades)
3- If you want the same HP with a higher amount of models, well you'll get positive RA (i don't think you want Conscripts 2.0)
At this point, there would be almost no "excuse" on leaving SU sniper with the actual RoF (if we are gonna make main line infantry 5 man squads). This would just lead into people complaining that support weapons need a 5th man also.
At the end of the day "don't fix what ain't broke".
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
19 Aug 2015, 17:01 PM
#37
Posts: 830
Do you know what a 5-man grensquad with the dps of a 4-man one is called?
Your knowledge won't hold me down!
19 Aug 2015, 17:02 PM
#38
Posts: 830
1- When i said "...a squad with more dps..." i was making the comparison to conscripts.
2- You never mentioned an increase on cost. So you want Rifles 2.0 for OH? As OH, i wouldn't want that (if that also means receveing the same treatment as Rifles regarding vets and upgrades)
3- If you want the same HP with a higher amount of models, well you'll get positive RA (i don't think you want Conscripts 2.0)
At this point, there would be almost no "excuse" on leaving SU sniper with the actual RoF (if we are gonna make main line infantry 5 man squads). This would just lead into people complaining that support weapons need a 5th man also.
At the end of the day "don't fix what ain't broke".
You know what, I'll drop it. You can't seem to make anything particularly clear.
19 Aug 2015, 17:36 PM
#39
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedGrens are fine as 4 man because lmg makes them a good squad. Weak, been but strong firepower.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
19 Aug 2015, 20:17 PM
#40
15 Posts: 164
I'm not sure on this.
I don't really see a need for this change but I don't see it really effecting things negatively. This change would typically free up 3-4 pop cap during a game. How often does wehr max out on pop cap?
I don't really see a need for this change but I don't see it really effecting things negatively. This change would typically free up 3-4 pop cap during a game. How often does wehr max out on pop cap?
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