What to do with the MG34?

They didn't increase Sturms DPS. And Sturms are supposed to be used in conjunction with Kubels not MG34's.

The fact it does better close range suppression is irrelevant, since if a squad is close to you they can just throw a grenade and kill you.



http://www.coh2.org/replay/37566/final-ost-1v1-placement-match

You're assuming that it's far suppression isn't enough to suppress a squad at far range, maybe you can show a replay of that? My squads usually get suppressed when they start getting shot at by a mg-34.

Squad of osttruppen doesn't suppress blobs.

Its cheapest MG in game, there is zero excuse for it to have better stats.

No but con blobs will suppress osttruppen pre patch

.50 cal needs a proper thread.

MG34: reduce vet requirements or increase damage by 1 (or just revert damage change)

i could like damage increase/revert over the reduce vet requirement, thanks

It's job is to suppress, which is does well enough for a 210 MP unit.

yes its suppress is ok for its price but a sq can stay suppress for a very long time give other sq time to shoot at crew members, and usually HMG34 will lose two crew member very fast, while the sq suppress to hell maybe lost 1-2 models some times none, any other HMG team have that problem? any sq stay in any other HMG fire zone suppressed will lose members like flies. we suggest HMG34 damage increase is because sqs should be punished for staying in the HMG suppression, not like they just need lay on the floor and take a nap.

yes its suppress is ok for its price but a sq can stay suppress for a very long time give other sq time to shoot at crew members, and usually HMG34 will lose two crew member very fast, while the sq suppress to hell maybe lost 1-2 models some times none, any other HMG team have that problem? any sq stay in any other HMG fire zone suppressed will lose members like flies. we suggest HMG34 damage increase is because sqs should be punished for staying in the HMG suppression, not like they just need lay on the floor and take a nap.

being suppressed is a punishment. If my squad is suppressed, they can barely move and shoot less accurately. Then they'll get pinned if they don't retreat. They are a support team, they are not meant to be by themselves. That's why they are so cheap.

If Maxim is best setup time, MG42 has best suppression, and 50cal has best damage, IMO MG34 should be in the good combo of their attributes statwise.
And no, it should not be non-doc, OKW already have kubels, plus you need to fill in two doctrinal slots to deal with that.

Maybe also give MG34 a different vet1 ability? Besides stats it is literally just OKW MG42, maybe a sort of Focus Fire clone that increases some stats but limits firing cone.

being suppressed is a punishment. If my squad is suppressed, they can barely move and shoot less accurately. Then they'll get pinned if they don't retreat. They are a support team, they are not meant to be by themselves. That's why they are so cheap.

well they can sit there for full min give mortar clear vision and keep MG busy can't fire on other squad i don't think it is punishment at all. 30MP cheaper than Maxim i don't see excuse of from able to kill alot to kill nothing difference. HMG34 have 27.85% damage of Maxim, so in your thinking 30mp/12.5% cheaper means 72.15% less damage is justify then i really have nothing to say

being suppressed is a punishment. If my squad is suppressed, they can barely move and shoot less accurately. Then they'll get pinned if they don't retreat. They are a support team, they are not meant to be by themselves. That's why they are so cheap.

OKW lacks any sort of mortar equivalent to punish pinned/suppressed squads and suppressed squads can just kill you with a nade if you can't punish them for sticking around in the arc. The 34 just takes so long to pin it's very hard to keep it alive.

OKW lacks any sort of mortar equivalent to punish pinned/suppressed squads and suppressed squads can just kill you with a nade if you can't punish them for sticking around in the arc. The 34 just takes so long to pin it's very hard to keep it alive.

That is not true, they have the leig support gun which has longer range than any other mortar with the exception of the heavy mortar which is doctrinal and the barrage from the pack howi which only has 4 shots. Secondly, you can punish pinned/suppressed squads with volks/sturms even if you didn't build one. The same way that OST players spot and punish pinned/suppressed squads with pioneers.

well they can sit there for full min give mortar clear vision and keep MG busy can't fire on other squad i don't think it is punishment at all. 30MP cheaper than Maxim i don't see excuse of from able to kill alot to kill nothing difference. HMG34 have 27.85% damage of Maxim, so in your thinking 30mp/12.5% cheaper means 72.15% less damage is justify then i really have nothing to say

First of all, direct mp comparisons to DPS are really silly. Because a squad is X% cheaper than another squad, does not mean it is X% less effective, or vice versa. It would be like me complaining that a sturmpioneer does 4 times more damage than a rear echelon, but it's only twice as expensive, so it should be nerfed. I think we'd all agree that is really stupid. Or, how about a Zis which costs no fuel, can beat a jagdpanzer? Should we nerf the zis? You need to be really careful about doing costs per DPS comparisons because there are other factors to consider other than just "this does costs X% more so it should do X% more dps".


Then you're complaining that one infantry squad and one mortar beat one MG34, I think that's pretty fair. Maybe you can bring an infantry squad with your support team like he did.

The role of the mg34 is to suppress squads, not deal a lot of damage. I think the veterancy issue is a valid complaint and they should lower the vet requirements. The suppression never seems to be an issue for me whenever I use it.

That is not true, they have the leig support gun which has longer range than any other mortar with the exception of the heavy mortar which is doctrinal and the barrage from the pack howi which only has 4 shots. Secondly, you can punish pinned/suppressed squads with volks/sturms even if you didn't build one. The same way that OST players spot and punish pinned/suppressed squads with pioneers.




First of all, the mp comparisons are really silly. Because a squad is X% cheaper than another squad, does not mean it is X% less effective, or vice versa. It would be like me complaining that a sturmpioneer does 4 times more damage than a rear echelon, but it's only twice as expensive, so it should be nerfed. I think we'd all agree that is really stupid. Or, how about a Zis which costs no fuel, can beat a jagdpanzer? Should we nerf the zis? You need to be really careful about doing costs per DPS comparisons because there are other factors to consider other than just "this does costs X% more so it should do X% more dps".


Then you're complaining that one infantry squad and one mortar beat one MG34, I think that's pretty fair. Maybe you can bring an infantry squad with your support team like he did.

The role of the mg34 is to suppress squads, not deal a lot of damage. I think the veterancy issue is a valid complaint and they should lower the vet requirements. The suppression never seems to be an issue for me whenever I use it.

i said it gives vision to mortar for extreme long period of time compare to other HMG, other HMG pin unit down it need retreat other wise it is dead sq (usual sq pin in HMG fire will die out during around 2-4 shots from mortar), then mortar need use barrage ability or attack ground to bombard the HMG, not like have vision so it can land very accuracy shots, if you say price % and effectiveness compares between similar unit is invalid then what they compare to should be valid. almost all units in COH2 is pretty much with in range of price and effectiveness compare to similar units, there is price difference and there is some up and downs. yes SP is twice price and 4x damage than RE only in range of 3, far range is 45%/1.5dps more in far. so if you have two RE in range you can beat SP no problem on stat, also SP can't build fighting position, can't throw rifle nades out of a bunker, cant buy two bazooka work as cheap AT unit.

also i said it suppression is justify with its price, so many times, you don't read or what.

sign, whatever i got nothing more to say to you as you indeed think 12.5% less price with 72% less damage to a similar unit with similar use is fine.

i said it gives vision to mortar for extreme long period of time compare to other HMG, other HMG pin unit down it need retreat other wise it is dead sq (usual sq pin in HMG fire will die out during around 2-4 shots from mortar), then mortar need use barrage ability or attack ground to bombard the HMG, not like have vision so it can land very accuracy shots, if you say price % and effectiveness compares between similar unit is invalid then what they compare to should be valid. almost all units in COH2 is pretty much with in range of price and effectiveness compare to similar units, there is price difference and there is some up and downs. yes SP is twice price and 4x damage than RE only in range of 3, far range is 45%/1.5dps more in far. so if you have two RE in range you can beat SP no problem on stat, also SP can't build fighting position, can't throw rifle nades out of a bunker, cant buy two bazooka work as cheap AT unit. sign, whatever i got nothing more to say to you as you indeed think 12.5% less price with 72% less damage to a similar unit with similar ability is fine.

Exactly, see, you made my point for me. RE can do other stuff other than DPS. Same with MG34. It has more pen, a MUCH better vet1 ability that allows it to kill light vehicles and a much wider arc compared to the maxim. But you just want to look at DPS, that's fine. That's why I said, pure DPS comparison to cost is silly if that's all you're looking at.

And yes it is really hard to read your paragraphs with poor punctuation. So you're saying you think the suppression is fine? Good I agree as well. I just think that the suppression is really all it's needed for in the context of the OKW army.

Also, it sounds like you're saying after the squad retreats then the mortar just bombards until it dies? I could just move my MG34 if I'm being bombarded. We could theory craft in circles like this all day but it won't get us anywhere.


How about this, you, Alex and I can join a game and we can do some tests with the MG-34 and post the replay on here and people can make up their own minds.

Iv already tested the MG34, it can't be a single MG 1 on 1 no matter what level of vet it's at due to the fact it's DPS is so unabashedly poor. It also struggles to beat large numbers of infantry due to how poor it's DPS is and how long it's swivel time is between targets.

Out of 20 tests only once was I able to get it to pin a squad before it could throw a nade.

EDIT: The MG42 used to be eh before it was buffed because it didn't do enough DPS and suppression at far to stop squads from simply crawling into the arc and killing it with a nade. Now it can punish squads that attempt this, the MG34 cannot.

Iv already tested the MG34, it can't be a single MG 1 on 1 no matter what level of vet it's at due to the fact it's DPS is so unabashedly poor. It also struggles to beat large numbers of infantry due to how poor it's DPS is and how long it's swivel time is between targets.

Out of 20 tests only once was I able to get it to pin a squad before it could through a nade.

EDIT: The MG42 used to be eh before it was buffed because it didn't do enough DPS and suppression at far to stop squads from simply crawling into the arc and killing it with a nade. Now it can punish squads that attempt this, the MG34 cannot.

A grenadier can rifle grenade a maxim before it gets pinned, should we buff the maxim's suppression?

EDIT: Depending on how much, I wouldn't be completely opposed to a far accuracy buff to increase suppression at far range.

Exactly, see, you made my point for me. RE can do other stuff other than DPS. Same with MG34. It has more pen, a MUCH better vet1 ability that allows it to kill light vehicles and a much wider arc compared to the maxim. But you just want to look at DPS, that's fine. That's why I said, pure DPS comparison to cost is silly if that's all you're looking at.

It's really hard to read your paragraph but it sounds like you're saying after the squad retreats then the mortar just bombards until it dies? I could just move my MG34 if I'm being bombarded. We could theory craft in circles like this all day but it won't get us anywhere.

it vet 1 ability have pathetic damage because its damage. if i remember right incendiary rounds x2 its damage so it bring the MG34 damage to 4 which is normal HMG42 DPS before incendiary rounds, I can't find pen for incendiary rounds ability so can't say much about it. and from my experience that HMG34 incendiary round from HMG34 is scratching M3 scout car. and how often you see HMG team use its abilities, their ability need special reload which breaks the fire. quite useless in most cases. and i don't much see pen differnce when against infantry or any vehicle between the HMG. I actually see more Maxim use sprint than see HMG42 use its incendiary rounds.

yes other HMG the sq will retreat and move away. HMG34 can't really move because it is pin other a sq, if they move the sq get of suppression and keep give vision to mortar. i am not saying only compare its dps, but for HMG team their use is similar and there is up and downs, HMG34 biger arc, slow setup, while maxim more men and quicker setup so those can cancel each other.

anyway i am done.

A grenadier can rifle grenade a maxim before it gets pinned, should we buff the maxim's suppression?

That's harder to pull off, and the maxim has a larger chance of surviving due to a larger crew. There's an actual risk with attempting it, there really isn't any risk when attempting it versus the MG34.

it vet 1 ability have pathetic damage because its damage. if i remember right incendiary rounds x2 its damage so it bring the MG34 damage to 4 which is normal HMG42 DPS before incendiary rounds, I can't find pen for incendiary rounds ability so can't say much about it. and from my experience that HMG34 incendiary round from HMG34 is scratching M3 scout car. and how often you see HMG team use its abilities, their ability need special reload which breaks the fire. quite useless in most cases. and i don't much see pen differnce when against infantry or any vehicle between the HMG. I actually see more Maxim use sprint than see HMG42 use its incendiary rounds.

yes other HMG the sq will retreat and move away. HMG34 can't really move because it is pin other a sq, if they move the sq get of suppression and keep give vision to mortar. i am not saying only compare its dps, but for HMG team their use is similar and there is up and downs, HMG34 biger arc, slow setup, while maxim more men and quicker setup so those can cancel each other.

anyway i am done.

In your scenario, you have 2 units vs 1. What if I had a sturmpioneer with the MG34 to kill the pinned squad?

When I checked the unit editor, incendiary rounds gave +9 penetration at all ranges which would give it 10.9/10.6/10.3 pen with it on and it doubles the damage. For reference the M20 car without upgrade has 11 front armor, the USF AA halftrack has 10 rear armor, which is what is exposed when firing. With the exception of the M5 AA halftrack, other halftracks have less than 10 armor. So, pretty effective.

In your scenario, you have 2 units vs 1. What if I had a sturmpioneer with the MG34 to kill the pinned squad?

When I checked the unit editor, incendiary rounds gave +9 penetration at all ranges which would give it 10.9/10.6/10.3 pen with it on and it doubles the damage. For reference the M20 car without upgrade has 11 front armor, the USF AA halftrack has 10 rear armor, which is what is exposed when firing. With the exception of the M5 AA halftrack, other halftracks have less than 10 armor. So, pretty effective.

Yes that's great but the doubled damage still only leaves it doing 4 damage, so not really all that much.

That's harder to pull off, and the maxim has a larger chance of surviving due to a larger crew. There's an actual risk with attempting it, there really isn't any risk when attempting it versus the MG34.

Not with the way squads bunch up now. You're way more likely nowadays to kill at least half the squad with a rifle grenade than not. Before they changed formations a few patches ago, I'd agree with you.

I'll do some more testing with it and see if I change my position at all.

Yes that's great but the doubled damage still only leaves it doing 4 damage, so not really all that much.

True, but since small arms never miss vehicles, that 4 damage coupled with the high rate of fire does a lot of damage if it can pen that well.

Not with the way squads bunch up now. You're way more likely nowadays to kill at least half the squad with a rifle grenade than not. Before they changed formations a few patches ago, I'd agree with you.

I'll do some more testing with it and see if I change my position at all.

The new delta formation on MGs means in the open it's really hard to wipe the maxim with riflenades.

True, but since small arms never miss vehicles, that 4 damage coupled with the high rate of fire does a lot of damage if it can pen that well.

The MG34 doesn't have a very high ROF.