More durability for light tanks

Thats the whole point. They are too much of a glass cannon. Some of them die too easily but also kill full squads too fast. More of them need to have 330-400hp and less killing power for Quad and T70.

A bit of a damage nerf in conjunction with a hp buff won't change the current situation where T-70s/Quads come out way too fast and can solo an Pak fairly reliably, on the contrary. The status quo literally provides the Allied players multiple opportunities for gamewinning engagements starting from as quick as potentially 2cps...which sucks terribad. Statline wise, T-70s/Stuarts are in a good place (the quad being obviously broken), the problem is the timing.

Queen, are you taking a shot at Katitof theorycrafter throne? Get playing then.

Personally I want a buff for T-70s.

But to answer this in an un-biased way: no, they're fine, just require more micro/timing/skill to use. Seriously. If you buff them all then it'll be 2013 all over again

But no really Relic gimme my good ol' T-70 back, ya know. Von misses the old ppsh hit the dirt t-70 spammerino days of glory. Oh and don't forget about Windustry, it needs love too

5 CP Puma is a problem though as a side note.
Makes t-70s pointless to make.

No, you should have read the post I responded to. That one stated that USF would be totally hopeless if 222 would receive any kind of survivability buff. Thus I responded with the argument that stuart can still counter 222 and puma perfectly.

Unless someone literally claims 'op', it is wise to not rush to conclusions

USF is already in a really bad position and buffing the 222 will make matters more. Puma almost always wins against the Stuart, unless you make a mistake or run over a mine or sth (but who goes Lt tier and get mines now anyway).

USF is already in a really bad position and buffing the 222 will make matters more. Puma almost always wins against the Stuart, unless you make a mistake or run over a mine or sth (but who goes Lt tier and get mines now anyway).

USF is 2nd best faction in 1v1 right after soviets, i dont call this "really bad position"

Light tabks are pretty relevant now. Maybe to relevant if you know what I mean. I wouldn't buff them in any way atm.

If anyone has a AT gun getting circled and killed by a light tank that got 2 hits, thats a l2p issue because tank has very low health and anything like a 20mm AA cannon or faust will finish it off at that point. Someone that relies on killing a mid game unit by 2 shotting it before the person has any opportunity to micro away and save it just isn't very good. Either it needs to take 3 hits or someone needs to get a unit that can chase it and finish it off. I said multiple times that in their current state, it is a good thing that Quad and T70 are getting 2 shotted or else they would shit on infantry even harder. What needs to happen is they need just a little bit more HP and not be broken offensively.

There is a reason the top vcoh players responsible for the last balance patch decided to get rid of the multiple cloaked shots on Paks w/ bonus damage, because M8s were getting 2 shotted by them. Top players agree with my logic, but here come all the average and below players complaining because they aren't very good at killing light vehicles in the hands of people that micro them and don't want attentive players to have the opportunity of escaping away when they realize they are taking AT fire.

Its the same reason highly skilled FPS players don't like it when games drastically reduce the TTK, because it gives someone a very high chance at killing someone that is much better than them if it isn't a head to head shootout. In the more standard competitive shooters (non realistic, like coh), if someone is extremely skilled they can take a shot or two in the side and react fast enough to still have a decent chance at killing the guy. This wasn't some kind of op-ed, I already knew what side the elite players take on this type of issue.

This ^ The M8 Rush meta was the best meta. It really diversified openings as U.S. in determining if you should rush a supply yard, go for pinneapples or bars. It would always throw off the axis player if they were a below average player but a skilled axis player would predict which route that USF would go for.
The t70 should have 400 hp, and the stuart should allow you to upgrade a mounted machine gun. This light vehicle meta that's present now is good but it can definitely be better.

Didnt know all 3 halftracks were light tanks, thanks for enlightenment. Why are you mentioning that the stuart gets 2 shotted when it doesnt anymore?

I dont give a fuck how "good" you think you are. You are obviously exaggerating if you struggle to micro light "tanks". I dont think you are a bad player, so stop attacking me. It just, in this instance, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.

Thread summary: I consider light vehicles tanks and cant micro them so i made a thread expressing my micro issues. Dont disagree with me, cus then ill explain how better i am than you whilst, again, failing to micro them in the best light vehicle patch to-date.

Lol.

Its the same reason highly skilled FPS players don't like it when games drastically reduce the TTK, because it gives someone a very high chance at killing someone that is much better than them if it isn't a head to head shootout.

CS:GO is the "only" real FPS competitive and the TTK is really low. Some steps down i'll say we could find CoD (which i'm not sure there is a PC competitive scene bar the old CoD4) and BF. Both of them still have a low TTK.
Honorable mention to Quake (combat may drag out a bit more but it's way faster paced and there are still high damage weapons).

Top players agree with my logic, but here come all the average and below players complaining because they aren't very good at killing light vehicles in the hands of people that micro them and don't want attentive players to have the opportunity of escaping away when they realize they are taking AT fire.

Hmm i think none of the top players (let's say those around top200) have agreed with you in this thread.
Ginnungagap/Strummingbird/comm_ash/LeYawn/VonIvan/me

Attentive players won't get their light tanks get killed easily. You forget that the T70 has both repair and scout abilities in order to increase his survivability. Use it next time.

People keep saying the T-70 needs 400HP. The T-70's trade off compared to the M5 Stuart is high offensive power, compared to a Luchs it will kill the Luchs in a 1v1 fight. If you want to increase the T-70's health to 400, the rate of fire needs to be halved, at least.

CS:GO is the "only" real FPS competitive and the TTK is really low. Some steps down i'll say we could find CoD (which i'm not sure there is a PC competitive scene bar the old CoD4) and BF. Both of them still have a low TTK.
Honorable mention to Quake (combat may drag out a bit more but it's way faster paced and there are still high damage weapons).

In CSGO the TTK is really low in the hands of the pros and very good players because head shots are so rewarding, in the hands of a average player it feels more like a medium ttk game like cod or BF. The first game that comes to mind is cod ghosts where the ttk was noticably quicker than all games before it was cod ghosts. "Low" ttk games are realistic games like Insurgency, Arma, Red Orchestra, etc. Those games put huge emphasis on smart movement rather than mlg420noscope twitch shooter skills. You could say those games are more immersive, and fittingly finding yourself in the wrong place in the wrong time (bound to happen sometimes) no matter how good you are, is usually a death sentence. In strategy games the MoW and Wargame series fall in to that fairly realistic category.

CoH is a competitive arcarde style game, so it makes no sense for such harsh punishment just for making a misstep that even the best players are going to make. It isn't consistent with the way the rest of the game works either, infantry units don't instantly die for walking in to a MG in red/no cover, so mid game vehicles shouldn't be doomed for entering a AT arc without a chance for good micro to save it.

Hmm i think none of the top players (let's say those around top200) have agreed with you in this thread.
Ginnungagap/Strummingbird/comm_ash/LeYawn/VonIvan/me

Attentive players won't get their light tanks get killed easily. You forget that the T70 has both repair and scout abilities in order to increase his survivability. Use it next time.

None of the names you mentioned are top tier players, no offense. VonIvan is the closest, but the only true elite players CoH2 has seen so far is OMGPOP and Jesulin. The guys that were responsible for last coh1 patch included Seb, Sepha, Guderian, Aimstrong....actual legendary players. And I was top 75 in this game a for a few months after it came out when it was the main game I was playing, plus around top 100 in vcoh when it had 10k daily players and down to top 25 as the playerbase eroded. Just because I got back in to coh about two weeks ago doesn't take away from my knowledge of how the franchise works.

I didn't want to get in to "whats your ranking" bullshit, but since you brought it up, I'll bite.

People keep saying the T-70 needs 400HP. The T-70's trade off compared to the M5 Stuart is high offensive power, compared to a Luchs it will kill the Luchs in a 1v1 fight. If you want to increase the T-70's health to 400, the rate of fire needs to be halved, at least.

T-70 is also the only light tank that can scout out positions off-the-bat without needing vet from a moderately safe distance thanks to recon mode which should be on, usually. That ability's toggle cooldown is pretty short so you can quickly swap to the gun when needed.

Sounds like someone is really missing vcoh. .

the t70 would see more see late game if its hp was raised in exchange for lower rof.

snip

Again, how much health you want the T70 to have? Other light tanks? Other light vehicles?
Light scoutcars die to 2 AT gun shots (1+ some extra damage)
HT dies to 2 At gun shots. They are not meant to "solo" push.
Light tanks dies to 3* (T70 as i said before has recon and vet which let it see further beyond and crew repair for "quick saves").
Medium tanks dies to 4

Right now by timing, versatiliy and specially firepower, the T70 shouldn't get +10/+80 hp.

--------------------------------

I'm going offtopic here.

"Highly skilled FPS players don't like it when games drastically reduce the TTK".
You talk about high skill players and then you back up with:
"in the hands of a average player it feels more like a medium ttk game like cod or BF"
The analogy was bad. Accept it. I'm out of touch with BF4 but last time i regularly played, it was still 4/5 bullets (not counting headshots which they increased the damage modifier on the last patches) and around .4s TTK. BF3 was even lower (Slugs + Magnum + M16/Aek)

Medium TTK FPS are Planetside 2 (gl killing a heavy with shield and medkits) and Dirty Bomb.

Realistic games such as Arma or RO put more emphasis on long range low TTK.

So we go back into vCoh nostalgia. Even then, i haven't seen those guys agreeing with YOU in the this thread or in the sense that COH2 needs these changes. So your criteria now is top 10, good, again, i haven't seen Jesulin, Omgpop, Simon (Aimstrong?), Luvnest or any other "elite" player complaining about it.

PD: infantry dies on 2s to grenades and we are not complaining. (Elite infantry throwing)
PD2: i somehow got top 40 as SU and AT top3 Who cares about ranking, but don't make your opinion "plural" by assuming that "top players" also agree with your opinion.
I brought that up since you wrote this:
"Top players agree with my logic, but here come all the average and below players complaining because they aren't very good at killing light vehicles"

Again, how much health you want the T70 to have? Other light tanks? Other light vehicles?

Mid game vehicles need more than 320. Could be 330, could be 400. Doesn't matter so long as 2 hits does not kill it, and does not deal heavy engine damage (light damage is ok).

Right now by timing, versatiliy and specially firepower, the T70 shouldn't get +10/+80 hp.

I've said countless times that currently T70 and Quad are too effective at wiping units and its currently a good thing they are 2 shotted for the sake of some semblance of balance. Not even going to bother responding to the next person to bring this up since half the people in this thread are reading selectively.

PD: infantry dies on 2s to grenades and we are not complaining. (Elite infantry throwing)

Dodging grenades is very rewarding for high micro players, bad comparison. When mid game vehicles are dying in two AT gun hits your micro is bottlenecked by the fact that even if you react immediately after the first hit its too late to escape the arc before it can take a second shot in most situations. Only two scenarios it doesn't get two shots (not counting use of smoke ability) is driving around a shot blocker and driving through its point blank narrow arc, or being parked at max range and reversing out. Driving laterally across arc from further distance and it will get a 2nd shot most times. Driving in to its arc and then stopping and reversing out it will also get two shots off.

So we go back into vCoh nostalgia. Even then, I haven't seen those guys agreeing with YOU in the this thread or in the sense that COH2 needs these changes. So your criteria now is top 10, good, again, i haven't seen Jesulin, Omgpop, Simon (Aimstrong?), Luvnest or any other "elite" player complaining about it.


PD2: i somehow got top 40 as SU and AT top3 Who cares about ranking, but don't make your opinion "plural" by assuming that "top players" also agree with your opinion.
I brought that up since you wrote this:
"Top players agree with my logic, but here come all the average and below players complaining because they aren't very good at killing light vehicles"

You don't need to be a vcoh player to see the inconsistency between the arcade style Halo spartan infantry and MoW style mid game vehicle play. Just because those players aren't active on the forums doesn't mean they agree with you or disagree with me, the best of the best almost never engage with the theory crafting plebs in balance talk (Aimstrong told me on steam he agreed with my points, in fact he was the one that mentioned the change to Paks because I completely forgot they were 2 shotting M8s in 2.601).

And by "top tier" players I did not mean those who are or have been top 10, I meant the truly elite. Jesulin and OMGPOP have been the only ones this game has seen in 1v1, nobody else has been been dominating like them or the vcoh players I named. If you know anything about NBA VonIvan is like Dwayne Wade vs Michael Jordan compared to them; unquestionably a good player, but not going down as one of the best ever. But anyway I was not talking specifically about CoH2s top 50 or so players, but elite players in general for any competitive game that are against dying super fast. That is more fitting for more casual realistic games, which I am not bashing in any way because I play more those than coh these days, but when I come and play an arcade competitive game I expect it to feel like an arcade competitive game.

what's ttk?

what's ttk?

Time to kill

USF is 2nd best faction in 1v1 right after soviets, i dont call this "really bad position"

Vous êtes fou

Vous êtes fou

http://coh2chart.com/

You don't need to be a vcoh player to see the inconsistency between the arcade style Halo spartan infantry and MoW style mid game vehicle play. Just because those players aren't active on the forums doesn't mean they agree with you or disagree with me, the best of the best almost never engage with the theory crafting plebs in balance talk (Aimstrong told me on steam he agreed with my points, in fact he was the one that mentioned the change to Paks because I completely forgot they were 2 shotting M8s in 2.601)

And by "top tier" players I did not mean those who are or have been top 10, I meant the truly elite. Jesulin and OMGPOP have been the only ones this game has seen in 1v1, nobody else has been been dominating like them or the vcoh players I named. If you know anything about NBA VonIvan is like Dwayne Wade vs Michael Jordan compared to them; unquestionably a good player, but not going down as one of the best ever. But anyway I was not talking specifically about CoH2s top 50 or so players, but elite players in general for any competitive game that are against dying super fast. That is more fitting for more casual realistic games, which I am not bashing in any way because I play more those than coh these days, but when I come and play an arcade competitive game I expect it to feel like an arcade competitive game.

What I'm curious about is why you originally decided to bring up the supposed support of these truly elite players have for your position when you can't actually cite any. The closest thing to evidence you've offered is Aimstrong's point, but increasing reload on PAKs is different from giving light tanks more HP (making PAKs reload slower also reduces their effectiveness versus mediums, for instance, and is also a change specific to just that AT gun, not AT guns in general). I don't think you are intending to troll here but you are debating with such poor form that trolling is effectively what you are doing.

#3 player for USF 1v1 = not "truly elite," opinion can be disregarded. OK nevermind, maybe you are deliberately trolling.