Undo Soviet T3 before T4 requirement

T34 is 80 fuel

thats mostly irrelevant. IDK what you wanna say by this. T34 is in a weird spot now.

If you're gonna count vehicle production, you need to add 50 fuel to Ostheer for the Scout Car and Half-Track.

You can go as far down the rabbit hole with hypotheticals as you want, but the discussion was about making an active choice to rush a medium vehicle.

you skipped alot of tech options soviets need to survive just so you can tell me a rushed t34-76 comes "quicker" then a panzer 4,i pointed what you missed.

anyways the t-34 will be a trash unit when panthers arrive so good luck fighting panthers with t34-76,since the new tech system made it possible for those 2 units to arrive at the same time.

(the t34-76 is a very cheap tank that comes too late to make any meaningful impact on the game)

you skipped alot of tech options soviets need to survive just so you can tell me a rushed t34-76 comes "quicker" then a panzer 4,i pointed what you missed.

anyways the t-34 will be a trash unit when panthers arrive so good luck fighting panthers with t34-76,since the new tech system made it possible for those 2 units to arrive at the same time.

(the t34-76 is a very cheap tank that comes too late to make any meaningful impact on the game)

Ostheer T4 =/= Soviet T4

Ostheer T3 =/= Soviet T3

Ostheer T3 = Soviet T4

Only OKW can rush out Panthers in the smaller game mode and they were doing that awhile ago because they're special.

Also I hope the Panther can fight T-34s as it's an expensive anti-armour tank with only mediocre AI.

If you're gonna count vehicle production, you need to add 50 fuel to Ostheer for the Scout Car and Half-Track.

even though they are not needed it still wont do much but still prove that the t34-76 comes too late with the new tech changes

Ostheer T4 =/= Soviet T4

Ostheer T3 =/= Soviet T3

Ostheer T3 = Soviet T4

Only OKW can rush out Panthers in the smaller game mode and they were doing that awhile ago because they're special.

Also I hope the Panther can fight T-34s as it's an expensive anti-armour tank with only mediocre AI.

its a medium tank that can also fight its counters (medium tank destroyers)

its also the most OP unit in the game,if t34-76 arrives at the same as the panther you know something is wrong.

If you're gonna count vehicle production, you need to add 50 fuel to Ostheer for the Scout Car and Half-Track.

Absolutely no.
OH vehicles can easily be skipped. They can have a good game without veicles T1 + pack into T3, or T1 into stuge or puma.
Plus ussualy its 222 or halftrack not both. But its their choice not necessity. Against t3 rush even single 222 is a wrong choice.

in the next patch they might not be the best faction anymore.

delete that best fracton text plz. Its hard to say which faction is strongest. most likely its OH this patch

Have to agree that the T-34/76 is in a weird spot. Now the most built and iconic tank of WW2 isn't being built at all.

The only way it'll ever be built is if we get rid of the T3 before T4 requirement. So in that case, maybe T3 will be a bit like motor pool which doesn't cost as much to tech to, unlike T4 which costs a lot of fuel to tech to. That way, ppl would still build T-34/76s if they want.

If I wanted immediate pushing off the map kind of AI and some quick AT, I'd still go T3. ATM, the Quad/SU-76 combo feels like building a Quad/M8 back in VCoH except you have better AT.

its a medium tank that can also fight its counters (medium tank destroyers)

It's a Tank Hunter, it counters Tank Destroyers as much as Tank Destroyers count it.

Have to agree that the T-34/76 is in a weird spot. Now the most built and iconic tank of WW2 isn't being built at all.

The only way it'll ever be built is if we get rid of the T3 before T4 requirement. So in that case, maybe T3 will be a bit like motor pool which doesn't cost as much to tech to, unlike T4 which costs a lot of fuel to tech to. That way, ppl would still build T-34/76s if they want.

If I wanted immediate pushing off the map kind of AI and some quick AT, I'd still go T3. ATM, the Quad/SU-76 combo feels like building a Quad/M8 back in VCoH except you have better AT.

I agree much with this.

What if the time to build a T34 was decreased? Because what does it matter that it's relatively cheap if you can't field them fast? That could increase usage of the tank. That happens often to me, using Tiger call-in because I need armor fast, not because the Tiger is the best armored option for the cost.

At nades are situational.

Sorry, but AT nades are a must!!!

It's a Tank Hunter, it counters Tank Destroyers as much as Tank Destroyers count it.

sorry its a medium tank,tank hunters are also known by the name of "TANK DESTROYERS".

the panther is not a tank hunter but a medium tank so please stop calling it "tank hunter"

to help you understand

Tank Destroyers
"A tank destroyer or tank hunter is a type of armoured fighting vehicle, armed with a direct-fire artillery gun or missile launcher, with limited operational capacities and designed specifically to efficiently engage enemy armoured vehicles in a cost-effective manner"

the su-85 and the jackson are tank destroyers,they fight only tanks nothing more,against infantry they are useless units,the panther on the other hand can fight infantry and fight tanks cause its a tank.

read below why those 2 things are not the same
"Tanks are generally armoured fighting vehicles designed for front-line combat which combine operational mobility and tactical offensive and defensive capabilities and perform all primary tasks of the armoured troops on the battlefield,the tank destroyer on the other hand is specifically designed mainly for taking on enemy armour"

the panther is a better medium tank then the panzer 4 in the game just like it was in real life

"The Panther was a German medium tank deployed during World War II from mid-1943 to the end of the European war in 1945. It was intended as a counter to the Soviet T-34, and as a replacement for the Panzer III and Panzer IV"

in short the panther is an endgame medium tank that can fight very well the enemy medium tanks and can also fight infantry,it is not a tank destroyer or tank hunter.

Gameplay-wise you are wrong. Panther is a tank hunter that also has attributes of a heavy tank: armour, higher health, heavy crush, cost and cannot be compared to medium tank in-game. It is primarily meant to close in and kill all vehicles with minor AI capabilities for support and brute force from its heavy tank-like stats. It also has speed to chase vehicles.

PIV is also much much better vs infantry than the Panther, furthering the Panthers role as a mainly dedicated anti-armour vehicle.

Gameplay-wise you are wrong. Panther is a tank hunter that also has attributes of a heavy tank: armour, higher health, heavy crush, cost and cannot be compared to medium tank in-game. It is primarily meant to close in and kill all vehicles with minor AI capabilities for support and brute force from its heavy tank-like stats. It also has speed to chase vehicles.

PIV is also much much better vs infantry than the Panther, furthering the Panthers role as a mainly dedicated anti-armour vehicle.

then i should call the easy eight sherman a tank hunter then?

what you just described is how op a panther is,why does it even damage infantry??,why does it even have such speed??,why does it have such a gun with such speed and armor??

the panther is just a medium tank it was called one in WW2 and its called a medium tank in the game,if it can kill infantry then that proves it isnt a tank destroyer or tank hunter as you call it,tank hunters are meant to destroy tanks,the panther does that and more.....

what you just described is how op a panther is,why does it even damage infantry??,why does it even have such speed??,why does it have such a gun with such speed and armor??

All justified by its cost

lmfao that guy believing Panther is a medium XD

then i should call the easy eight sherman a tank hunter then?

Yes actually, the Sherman Easy Eight is like a Medium Tank Hunter, it can battle all Axis Medium Tanks with an advantage. You can tell by the higher armour and penetration, like the Panther. The Panther is just the best Tank Hunter, having excellent armour, penetration, and health.

Yes actually, the Sherman Easy Eight is like a Medium Tank Hunter, it can battle all Axis Medium Tanks with an advantage. You can tell by the higher armour and penetration, like the Panther. The Panther is just the best Tank Hunter, having excellent armour, penetration, and health.

the easy eight is a medium tank just like the panther make sure you learn that while your playing

The Panther is essentially a Heavy Tank in game, it costs more than any medium (although that will change when Brits hit ), and isn't supposed to fight mediums.

A T70 hits around 9 minutes. It would take an additional 90 fuel (80 for T4 + 10 more for tank) to skip T70 and immediately go for T34s. So if things are going well it will take you around 12 minutes to get a T34. "T34 came at 10 minutes and won the game" said no man ever, at least since they fixed the ramming bullshit like a year and a half ago. A T70 or Quad has a much higher chance of winning the game when it comes at 8-9 minutes than a T34 arriving around 10 minutes because both of those units can drive towards high value capping squads and kill them easily in retreat, or just instantly suppress almost everything on the screen and force a full route.

If you could go straight T4 in this patch for T34s, you would get it 1-2 minutes after you could have gotten a T70. With T4 rather than T3 you sacrifice a brief period with no vehicle, you sacrifice 2 units that can deliver a knock out blow to enemy infantry as it pursues to base and just melts everything. In exchange you get something that has more survivability and scales later in to late game tank warfare. The main and possibly only advantage a T34 poses over T3 units is a better long term investment in to a unit that won't be getting one shotted by heavier Axis armor, so it really makes no sense to require T3 before T4 because in reality a straight T4 tech has less shock value than T3. As far as the other units go, a Katyusha is going to be equally effective vs infantry whether it comes at 8 minutes or 30 minutes because it just sits in the back and infantry don't become more resilient to artillery as the game progresses. Ostheer get their SU85 equivalent TD in T3 and its inferior to SU76 right now anyway.