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KV-2

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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 11:50 AM
#1
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Recently I tried to use KV-2 but 14CP for this tank is definetly too much.


  • It has only 800HP
  • Terrible long reload, over 11secs!
  • It costs (almost) same amount of resources like Tiger or IS (which are superior and come earlier).
  • It comes at 14CPs which I find too high for this unit (should be 13 like Tiger or IS)
  • Barrage mode is like invitation for Sturmtiger, Jadgtiger with pircing shells, CAS, Dive bomb or any other off map.
  • Comes with doctrine which often punishes you (constant MP->Fuel) in contrast to Luftwaffe/CAS/Lend-Lease which don't punish you at all.
  • The only heavy tank which does not receive -% relod with veterancy.



I'd suggest to move it to 13CPs, increase fuel cost to 260 while decreasing MP to 500 (or fix this constant MP->Fuel Relic and make it like Luftwaffe/OKW Rep Station/Lend-Lease drops).
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Robbie_Rotten
4 Aug 2015, 12:23 PM
#2
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

It is a horrible tank in a now horrible doctrine. The only advantage of windustry, the 6 minute t70, is now basically stock with the 7-7.5 minute t70/m5.

And why a KV2 when the quad is way more effective at scaring off infantry. It is like a worse call in broombear.
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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 12:33 PM
#3
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 12:23 PMRobbie_Rotten
It is a horrible tank in a now horrible doctrine. The only advantage of windustry, the 6 minute t70, is now basically stock with the 7-7.5 minute t70/m5.

And why a KV2 when the quad is way more effective at scaring off infantry. It is like a worse call in broombear.


And that's why I would love to see KV-2 in 1 or 2 more doctrines.
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chipwreckt
4 Aug 2015, 12:35 PM
#4
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Posts: 732

Ive seen some top players like Jove beat other top players with this doc. also using KV2. In maps like Einhoven if you set it up in middle it wipes everything.
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Alexzandvar
4 Aug 2015, 12:57 PM
#5
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Why not just make Soviet Industry use those trucks like Assault Support does. Also give the KV-2 AP/HE shells and remove the lockdown and just increase the base ROF.
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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 13:00 PM
#6
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 12:35 PMchipwreckt
Ive seen some top players like Jove beat other top players with this doc. also using KV2. In maps like Einhoven if you set it up in middle it wipes everything.


I belive you are speaking about 1v1.
In that case, I can agree but 2v2 is different story.

@Alex,you just nerfed unit which is already not good.
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Alexzandvar
4 Aug 2015, 13:18 PM
#7
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Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

How is giving it a not shit ROF outside of lockdown a nerd? And specialized shells could allow for buffs to anti armor performance
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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 13:25 PM
#8
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 13:18 PMAlexzandvar
How is giving it a not shit ROF outside of lockdown a nerd? And specialized shells could allow for buffs to anti armor performance

And for what reason I would get it over ISU or IS2 with your changes?

vs IS2:

Worse armor
Switching shells
Less HP
Similar cost
Much worse doctrine

vs ISU:
Shorter range
Less HP
Little worse AoE profile
Much worse doctrine


Waiting for at least 2 good reasons to pick KV2 with your changes.
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__deleted__
4 Aug 2015, 13:34 PM
#9
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Posts: 830

Seen it once, in a 4v4. My Panther kited it to death:banana:
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ElTirador
4 Aug 2015, 13:56 PM
#10
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Posts: 27

Luftwaffe supply drains all your manpower if you spam it ans CASconverter drains all your fuel leaving you without that "so needed" tanks, about Lend lease, i know that ammo isnt so popular, but the plane is easy to kill, all of them have something. About KV-2, its a really powerfull whipping machine, the problem is that it needs LoS, it would be great with guards, IMO it's a great unit in the wrong comander, It would be k on NKVD tactics, but thats just a theory
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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 14:10 PM
#11
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 13:56 PMElTirador
Luftwaffe supply drains all your manpower if you spam it ans CASconverter drains all your fuel leaving you without that "so needed" tanks, about Lend lease, i know that ammo isnt so popular, but the plane is easy to kill, all of them have something. About KV-2, its a really powerfull whipping machine, the problem is that it needs LoS, it would be great with guards, IMO it's a great unit in the wrong comander, It would be k on NKVD tactics, but thats just a theory


The point is that Luftwaffe does not drain your MP. It's up to you to decide if you want sacrafice 200 MP. From 2v2 perspective I can say that I often have around 600MP so I can get extra ammo without any penalties.
Just yesterday I had really intensive 2v2 and I was able to spend over 1000MP in exchange for ammo. But it was up to me when to do it.

CAS is same thing. It's up to when you want to convert.

Same thing for Lend-Lease of OKW conversion.

With KV-2 doctrine, it's different, nothing is up to you which is huge penalty.


As for the rest, you are right KV-2 is not that bad, but when you consider 14CP, costs and only 800HP, well... It does not look very good. Still, ISU is better at wiping and comes with better doctrines.
But still, over 11secs reload and the trajectory of the shell puts it way behind ISU in terms of wiping.
Barrage mode seems to be an answer but with Ostheer off maps, and OKW Jadgtiger and Sturmtiger, it's like shooting your own leg.
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Nebaka
4 Aug 2015, 14:41 PM
#12
avatar of Nebaka

Posts: 133

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 12:57 PMAlexzandvar
Also give the KV-2 AP/HE shells and remove the lockdown and just increase the base ROF.


AP shells for KV-2 never exist in real life.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
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Shell_yeah
4 Aug 2015, 14:49 PM
#13
avatar of Shell_yeah

Posts: 258

remove unsetup timer on stationary mode, but make it reload after turning stationary mode off, so it can avoid AT strafes and dive bombs but has to reload if it unsetups when getting rushed by tanks and can't just unsetup and immediately shoot but has to wait for reloading.
and same hp as is2 :foreveralone:

this should make it balanced imo
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Switzerland
4 Aug 2015, 14:54 PM
#14
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 545

Why would it make sense for war industry to use trucks? Should be a conversion like CAS for manpower.

As for removing lockdown, why? Remove the tanks one unique feature?

I've already started a thread as to how the KV1 and 2 are stuck in two lacklustre commanders. KV's being stuck in one commander a piece is pretty dumb when you can pick your ice cream flavour to go with you're tiger and even elephant.

KV's being more of an option would only serve to remove the boredom of seeing the IS2 or 152 every second game. Variety is good, Relic is standing behind that idea so I have faith in some change.

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Katitof
4 Aug 2015, 14:55 PM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 14:49 PMShell_yeah
remove unsetup timer on stationary mode, but make it reload after turning stationary mode off, so it can avoid AT strafes and dive bombs but has to reload if it unsetups when getting rushed by tanks and can't just unsetup and immediately shoot but has to wait for reloading.
and same hp as is2 :foreveralone:

this should make it balanced imo

Have you seen its turret traverse speed?
Unless you're attacking it from the very direction the barrel is turned to, you'll never get hit by it a single time.

Its super expensive, underperforming unit that is located in economically broken doctrine.

Its much weaker then IS-2 in tank role and much weaker then ISU in siege role.
And due to mp penalty its much more expensive then either of the two.

For it to be useful it needs to be good at something, its a bad tank and a bad over sized mortar.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Shell_yeah
4 Aug 2015, 15:08 PM
#16
avatar of Shell_yeah

Posts: 258

another suggestions is since KV-2 carries an ML-20 howitzer, maybe giving it a barrage(but no more than 5-6 shots) with range and damage of ML-20 when its in stationary mode instead of auto barrage would make it more cost-efficient
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ElTirador
4 Aug 2015, 15:10 PM
#17
avatar of ElTirador

Posts: 27

The commander itself looks like needed of a delete and rework, it has 5 skills, but unless the mp->fuel one, the others are "in conflict" each other: 2 skills to heal without need CE themselves and 2 kills to deal with infantry. I mean, do you really need 2 skills to repair without CE or KV-8 and KV-2 in the same doctrine? IMO, KV-8 and Selfrepair should be exchangued for more original skills or viceversa, KV-2 and repair stations changued, but its just a theory, i can be totally wrong or there can be better ways to go.
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Katitof
4 Aug 2015, 15:11 PM
#18
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2015, 15:08 PMShell_yeah
another suggestions is since KV-2 carries an ML-20 howitzer, maybe giving it a barrage(but no more than 5-6 shots) with range and damage of ML-20 when its in stationary mode instead of auto barrage would make it more cost-efficient

If anything, it would make it worse.
Why cripple your economy, elite infantry choice, off map possibilities and useful doctrinal armor for overpriced, shitty version of priest that would take more time to prepare then 360 spin B4?

This tank is dead and will be dead as long as industry is always-on penalty because it hardly qualifies as benefit anymore with extended menpower phase.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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BlackKorp
4 Aug 2015, 15:21 PM
#19
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Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

I agreee here 800 hp is a bit over the top and for this high fuel incoem of windustry it should cost more than 230 fuel.
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Australian Magic
4 Aug 2015, 17:31 PM
#20
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Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

With the recent SU changes, this doctrine is doing completly opposite thing and it disallows you to make more tanks, especially T34/76.
Floating fuel, without any MP to make tanks.

Relic, this doctrine needs small adjustment.

Still waiting for Alex to give 2 good reasons to choose KV2 over IS2/ISU with his changes :romeoPls:
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