Ostheer T4 Viability

Hello everyone! I started this thread to get a general idea of what the consensuses on the viability of Ostheer T4 is.

I personally think that Ostheer T4 and the Panther within it are priced fairly, but the inefficiency of the Panzerwerfer and the Brummbar make it a less useful tier than it should be.

I would suggest that the Panzerwerfer should get either:

- Less scatter, so that the barrage can be used from a farther range than it is currently effective from.

- Gain an HP increase to 320 and an armor increase to 16, to reflect its role as a more offensive artillery piece.

This will give the Panzerwerfer a true role, and make it less of a risky investment if it is meant to be a frontline rocket platform.


As for the Brummbar, I believe it's biggest weakness is it's vulnerability to pathing issues. I believe it's main weapon is in a good place currently. I would like to see the Brummbar made more useful by making it have either or both:

-Better rotation rate to compensate for it's pathing. It is a very lategame unit, and is currently too vulnerable to pathing issues compared to other highly priced tanks, due to it's lack of a turret and low maneuverability.

-Increased HP to reflect it's role as an emplacement smasher. Currently, the Brummbar has 800 HP (same as a T34/85). i would like to give it an HP buff to 960 or so, to reflect it's role as a borderline heavy unit.

The Brummbar will then be a heavy assault gun capable of smashing the heaviest fortifications when used smartly, and be less vulnerable to pathing issues.

I had always loved the brummbar... i feel it is a very viable unit O_o or is that just me...

Brummbar has never faild me. Pure wiping machine. I'm not sure if it needs any buffs.

As for PzWerfer, it's shitty ax max range, but at close range, when used behind shot blockers, it can wipe whole army without any chance to retreat.

Since Soviets often go for T3 and T4, Ostheer T4 is not an issue at all.
In 2v2 it is seen very often.

Ost have best AT gun for some reason.

The Ostheer Panther should come with skirts. Would make it distinct from the OKW Panther and give it a little boost since it comes so late and it's roll (fighting heavy's) got axed with the heavy limit + CP boost.

It's biggest weakness (poor DPS) got ramped up really hard now that the meta is all about using lots of mediums. The Ost Panther simply can't compete with the amount of shit that will be on the field because of how insanely expensive it is and how long it takes to get it.

It costs as much as two T34/85's or two Easy Eights to go from T3 (you can't afford to skip it if your playing competitively) to T4 and a Panther sure as fuck ain't worth two T34/85's or two Easy Eights.

Build Brummbar and Panzerwerfer for achievment/fun.
Imo for the price what they do not viable in player vs player.

Since latest changes imo Panther isn't worth either better go PanzerIV + AT gun, then Elefant if needed.

I would rather get two T34/85's or two Easy Eights instead 1 Panther.

Ost T4 still takes too long to get in a reasonable fashion imo. If it were 10 fuel cheaper to make I'd think it would be perfect. Units are great in T4 other than pwerfer but hey that's why Pr0stheer has howi docs and other fun things.

The only problem with Ostheer T4 is the panzerwerfer being silly terrible.

Today I had really, really long 2v2 (nuf said that I was able to make 2 Ostwinds, and 4 Panthers). At the momentum when 6 M10 charged into my Pak and 2 Panthers, I was able to kill all of them with a loss of 1 Panther so I'd say, Panther is not that bad.

Range, armor, mobility. Need nothing more.

Today I had really, really long 2v2 (nuf said that I was able to make 2 Ostwinds, and 4 Panthers). At the momentum when 6 M10 charged into my Pak and 2 Panthers, I was able to kill all of them with a loss of 1 Panther so I'd say, Panther is not that bad.

Range, armor, mobility. Need nothing more.

When it comes to a dedicated AT unit DPS is everything when facing massed enemy armor. The fact that you beat 1 guy with it (over a very long game mind you, so already extraordinary circumstances) is indicative of the fact that yes it's not bad. The issue isn't it being bad; just that it's roll kinda got lost when penning enemy armor isn't a problem.

It's in a good place, especially if you can skip building T3 with a command tank doctrine.

I think it comes too late, but the units are fine. You probably need at least 1 StuG. If you stall too much and save for T4+building+Unit you are gonna bleed MP since you have to hold with Infantry and PAKs which is hard late game.

Although T3 is very viable and effective (HMG42 to StuG Spam), T4 needs some tweaks. I think most people vote "it's fine" only because T3 is very viable.

I always saw the T4 as the "alternate tier" for ostheer - you should make the choice between T3 or T4. If you have the micro, it should pay off.

As a 1v1 player, I made a few brummbars, it was always very fun. The pwerfer always let me down, though, but I think I lack the micro to make it worth it. I always manage to lose it in a silly way.

IMO Sturmpanzer and Panzerwerfer are just too unreliable for cost. I'd much rather build an Ostwind to deal with infantry which is 60 fuel cheaper, has a turret, fires directly (doesn't lob), has a high RoF, can shoot down planes, etc. The Panzerwerfer is only really effective and reliable when used at point blank, which kinda defeats the point of it being "artillery." Panther is Panther and is solid.

Really, T4 just gets overshadowed by a cheaper and much more effective for cost T3. StuGs, Ostwinds and P4s supported by an eventual heavy tank I find to be a lot stronger (and cheaper) than anything involving T4.

IMO t4 is more for team games, it is never really viable in a 1v1 unless you get passed the 30-40 ish minute mark. In 1v1 I rather have 2 or 3 stugs with spotting scopes and target weak point. Why ostheer teching is still so expensive is baffling, especially the price for the panzerwerfer, outrageous to be honest.

Units in tier 4 are fine and very powerfull, yet the panzerwerfer is a complete joke, the thing can't kill anything unless unit scatter is in such a bad place that every single unit is clumped up inside each other and gets hit with all the rockets at once

I only build Ostheer T4 for the Panther. No other reason to get it.

Panzerwerfer is shit. There´s nothing the Brummbär can do, what the Ostwind can´t do more cost efficiently.

Considering T3 is a must these days and that the IS-2 is limited to one vehicle at a time, StuGs and Panzer IVs do quite well. So even the Panther is redundant.

I voted for the option that the units don´t pack enough of a punch. At least the Panzerwerfer and Brummbär that is.

Panther is the king in 3v3 and 4v4s - particularly open maps. It's great enough as a tank destroyer (really the king of all fast tanks). Brummbar could use a little love to compensate for its pathing issues and very high manpower cost, rotation seems like a good buff.

Panzerwerfer has a nice barrage - particularly against blobs. I haven't used it in ages which pretty much gives me no opinion - it seemingly comes very late as opposed to the katayusha.

Buff the Sturmpanzer or reduce his cost, move the Panzerwerfer back to T3 (then the 'rocket artillery' voiceover will finally be correct).

As Ostheer T4 has no allied equivalent, it is a luxury tier where unnecessary but highly potent units can be purchased.

Buff the Sturmpanzer or reduce his cost, move the Panzerwerfer back to T3 (then the 'rocket artillery' voiceover will finally be correct).

As Ostheer T4 has no allied equivalent, it is a luxury tier where unnecessary but highly potent units can be purchased.

I would like to see either Pzwerfer or Sturmpanzer in T3.

Thing is with T4 is that it still lives in the shadow of T3, especially with the buffed Stug that makes the panther somewhat obsolete ( Much better DPS at the trade of armor, health and mobility ) at a much cheaper price.

Brummbar is a tricky pony for me: It comes very handy at wiping out squads, performs well enough vs AT guns but his mobility is ass and the speed and trajectory of it's projectiles is left somewhat to be desired. It doesn't have an equivalent in the Ostheer rooster which is at least nice.

Finally the Panzerwefer, an overpriced piece of dare I say mobile artillery ( Have to be at minimum range to hit anything ). This thing is easly the worst motorized arty piece in the game with abbysmal AoE, long recharge time and poor accuracy ).


As a whole I consider this tier unecessary and can be skipped entirely.