Why OH has +1 squad in the opening

Conscript + T2 opening, maxim, conscript, maxim, combat engineers -> T3 -> M5 quad
...
For example, you can go M5 quad -> T70 -> 2nd M5 quad and you will still have a good 3-5 minutes before a P4 hits the field. During this time you can simply over-run his 2 AT guns and his infantry, killing them all and stealing all his weapons (plenty of on-field reinforcements with 2 quads). Doesn't matter if you lose one or two of your light vehicles in the process because you will have hit AT guns.
...

several thoughts

1. micro intensive strat. When playing with 2 light vehicles vs ATG and MG42 with AT rounds.
2. risky. If you dont aggresively win before p4 you will 100% lose after it hits the field. It will be p4 with ATG vs T3 - no chance.
3. replay of that would be good
4. reinforcement at the quad, never tried it. So it means you dont retreat squad but manualy move them to quad and just reinforce with no heal. Right?
5. There is no heal no AT grenades in this strat as I understand.

Conscript + T2 opening, maxim, conscript, maxim, combat engineers -> T3 -> M5 quad.

Ostheer medium tanks arrive very late. It will take your opponent a solid 7-8 minutes after your M5 quad hits the field to get out a P4, and that is assuming he actually manages to hold his fuel while you have the M5 quad on the field.
...

The matchup is pretty messed up at the moment. I have won quite a few games against decent opponents long before they even had a chance to produce a T3 unit. This is why mobile defence is suddenly included into every Ostheer players load-out.

What if he aggresively deny your fuel point early? Which he can do playing with T0-T1 with no tech. If you dont control fuel at least for a short time - there will be no 7-8 min window - so those T3s will be useless.

3 rifle openings are still pretty good, you just micro it like you would 3 cons honestly, and building fighting pits for hot spots.

sandbags still haven't lost their usefulness, especially once your elite infantry hits the field.

Why do you open with a tier? Go 3 cons into a tier

Your signature can describe all of aaa's posts.

What if he aggresively deny your fuel point early? Which he can do playing with T0-T1 with no tech. If you dont control fuel at least for a short time - there will be no 7-8 min window - so those T3s will be useless.

With a con-max-con-max-engy opening you will have no issue holding your own fuel, and you don't even need to hold more than half the map for the first 7 minutes of the game. You seem to severely underestimate the window of soviet T3. It's not some 2 minute window that you have to exploit to the maximum potential in order to gain some benefit from it. If rush a T70 (T2->T3->T70) while holding half the map, you will not be facing P4s for a long, long time. You can in fact, build another T3 structure and get another T70 and that will come out at the same time as the first enemy P4. That is how big your window is.

Just look at the fuel thresholds (in other words, the amount of fuel you need to collect to afford a unit when including tech cost):

M5 quad rush: 110 fuel (80+30)
T70 rush: 150 fuel (80+70)
P4: 275 fuel ( for T1,T3,P4) -> in practical terms, you NEED T2 with ostheer or a light vehicle rush will simply destroy you, so it's 295 fuel in the actual game.

So assuming you have had roughly 50% of the map, your M5 quad will hit ~1.5 minutes before your opponent even has half the fuel he needs for a P4. The window is huge! If you are mildly successful with your first quad (which is not hard), you expand the window further and you can easily fill it with more light vehicles (like getting a T70 and another Quad). At this point you have so many light vehicles on the field that it is impossible for you not to get huge map-control and overrun your opponent.

As I have said in another thread; this is why mobile defense is now suddenly so popular. It does away with the need to tech up for Ostheer so they actually stand a chance against the light vehicle onslaught. The only way I have been able to stand up to this without mobile defence is when my opponent plays too greedy and fails to get minesweepers.

Unfortunately the mini-update wiped the replays I had against Ostheer so you have to take my word for it that it works. But you can't argue with the simple math; a P4 will never come early to punish your T3 rush, it can not happen.

ITS FINE...

They have the most MP punishing tech system which is why they start off with more MP...

OKW 200 per tech, nice and simple

Sovs varies but relativly cheap still

USF get FREE squads for teching up (actually putting them ahead of Ostheer in squad count).


Use your head before making balance posts aaa..

Ostheer only got +60 MP at the start. How is that +1 squad?

Its +80.

One.
Thing.
Correctly.

Too much?

With a con-max-con-max-engy opening you will have no issue holding your own fuel

I dont know why you post this. For me its obviously wrong.
As I see it even 1 sniper would be enough to kick that con-max-con-max-engy away from your fuel. Dont forget that he have more units on the map for a whole game basicaly

What you gonna do with a sniper then? Curently on most maps I start con-sniper-3 cons vs OH cuz they can start with a sniper.

T70 rush: 150 fuel (80+70)

T70 fuel minimum 50+60+70 = 180
And I prefer t70 over M5 cuz 120 muni is too much of a price at this stage. You need that muni for other things at this stage.

Theoreticaly if he dont tech at all. Just massing T0-T1 to deny your fuel. And have a puma callin just in case. What then?
You cant fight if you spent on tech and so he would have at least +2 (maybe +3) squad advantage.

I dont know why you post this. For me its obviously wrong.
As I see it even 1 sniper would be enough to kick that con-max-con-max-engy away from your fuel. Dont forget that he have more units on the map for a whole game basicaly

What you gonna do with a sniper then. Curently on most maps I start con-sniper-3 cons vs OH cuz they can start with a sniper.



T70 fuel minimum 50+60+70 = 180

All your threads reveal in fact L2P issues and people like Aerohank are surprisingly patient teaching you how to do things. There are strategy forums around here, no need to believe that every time you got beaten is because a balance problem.

I remember when Ostheer was behind in teching and units right from the start against all its opponents, then the term was l2p. I guess we know what this means doesn't it

I think we all want to see soviet t3 get its deserved fix (maybe move some of the t4 cost to t3), but I think it needs to come with a buff to molotovs and/ or to penals.

That way, soviets can counter early Ostheer mgs through flanking more effectively. Currently, molotovs don't really do anything considering their price. Making them a credible weapon against mgs will go a long way to making flanking enemy positions with conscripts a viable choice. Increase their individual throw price if needed, but make them an actual threat. Currently they seem to be bottles of warm bathwater.

Part of the issue with the fast t3 of soviets is that it is almost a crutch being used to drive back enemy defensive positions through sheer shock power. It needs to change, but so does the base faction imo.

Its +80.

One.
Thing.
Correctly.

Too much?

Starting manpower increased from 360 to 420

420-360=60?

I dont know why you post this. For me its obviously wrong.
As I see it even 1 sniper would be enough to kick that con-max-con-max-engy away from your fuel. Dont forget that he have more units on the map for a whole game basicaly

What you gonna do with a sniper then? Curently on most maps I start con-sniper-3 cons vs OH cuz they can start with a sniper.

T70 fuel minimum 50+60+70 = 180
And I prefer t70 over M5 cuz 120 muni is too much of a price at this stage. You need that muni for other things at this stage.

Theoreticaly if he dont tech at all. Just massing T0-T1 to deny your fuel. And have a puma callin just in case. What then?
You cant fight if you spent on tech and so he would have at least +2 (maybe +3) squad advantage.

What I posted were the minimum fuel values that you need to acquire in order to produce M5/T70/P4. So all values posted are already corrected for starting fuel (50 in case for soviets, 20 for Ostheer).

A sniper opening is annoying on some maps but they also reduce your opponents squad-number advantage over you when you open with a tier structure. On most maps you can just stall it by hopping in a few buildings. or by waiting behind some corners where he can't push you. Remember, you do not need to push him of his fuel, you just have to hold your own and you will be able to rush out a M5 quad very quickly. Once you have that, you can start to push very, very hard.

An Ostheer player will always need to tech to T2. A puma will hit the field at 5CP, while you can rush out a M5 quad at 2-3CP. But even if the opponent goes for Mobile Defence, he will not have an advantage; he will merely be even with you. Pumas do not deal with infantry well so it is a lot easier to keep at bay with various AT options, including the SU76.

aaa can we please see you player card ? because as i can see you need more to learn how to play this game , not spam balance threads without any game clue.

EDIT: Also i think aeronavk is much better player than you and have big patience (instaed of me , i cant read this so i must have write this)



Please show us your playercard / real name in coh2

Starting manpower increased from 360 to 420

420-360=60?

Point for you this time.
I'll blame it on fever then.

As i see it this T3 rush is very situational.

At least on maps where fuel is in the far corners he CAN deny your fuel with heavy T0-T1 if you are doing that T3 rush.

If you have no fuel he can just skip T2 and puma and do whatever he wants.
He can even abuse T1 into P4 build if you dont have enough fuel.

My posts are not about balance but about L2p, how to counter etc.

As i see it this T3 rush is very situational.

At least on maps where fuel is in the far corners he CAN deny your fuel with heavy T0-T1 if you are doing that T3 rush.

If you have no fuel he can just skip T2 and puma and do whatever he wants.
He can even abuse T1 into P4 build if you dont have enough fuel.

No, he can't.

An Ostheer heavy T0+T1 will lose 100% of the time vs Soviet T3 rush if the soviet player builds a mine sweeper.

It's practically impossible to lose your fuel if you have 2x cons, 2x maxim and 2x Engie. You can pump out a quad around the 7 minute mark easily. If you can't hold your fuel for that long when you have machine guns then I have some bad news for you.

You can start your T3 structure with your second combat engineer squad and get out a M5 extremely quickly. If your opponent made use of heavy T1 and got like 6 units out of it, then yes, he will push you of your fuel while you are building T3. But this does not matter because the M5 hardly costs fuel and there will be nothing to stop it.

This is going to be my last post in this thread. If you truly think an Ostheer player can go T1 into P4 against Soviet T3 rush then there really is nothing left to say because I honestly doubt we play the same game.

show us your playercard / real name in coh2

no

As i see it this T3 rush is very situational.

At least on maps where fuel is in the far corners he CAN deny your fuel with heavy T0-T1 if you are doing that T3 rush.

If you have no fuel he can just skip T2 and puma and do whatever he wants.
He can even abuse T1 into P4 build if you dont have enough fuel.

My posts are not about balance but about L2p, how to counter etc.

Oooh come on, can you believe yourself? You're Kappa himself man... T3 rush is a solid thing in almost all the games. Yes in your ranks it will probably be only situational, but when you come to our level (read: top 200's) it's something you will counter every game.


Learn to Kappa better mr. I don't show my playercard since I'm too scared to say what it is...

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198018847508 this is mine, so now yours Kappachinno