ML-20 152mm Howitzer

Wait,you want counters to COMPLETLY DESTROY the ML-20 that costs 600MP!!! AND needs to be builded!AND IS DOCTRINAL leaving you with stock tanks to deal with panthers and what ever the axis have and you want cheap counters to it??like Close Air Support commander which ELIMINATES ARTILARY PLAY??????and you also want that counter to have the same range of the ml-20??????
?ok then i have the counter you want LUFFWAFE CLOSE AIR SUPPORT it has the tools to harras enemy lines,gives you alot of choices to advance OR DEFEND and has many cool abilitys to take out the howitzer AND if he builded it within his base then make a luch take out the bunkers and BOOM his base is exposed to infantry assaults by fallshimjager.

by decrewing the Ml-20 you make it lose its vet it gained(IF IT GAINED)AND force the soviet players to recrew it(which in turn bleed him MP!),it also disables it(making assaults much safer).

OH one last thing if the stuka was meant to be behind enemy lines then why does it have more health then a katyusha???the stuka has 320HP and is able to survive a tank shot and small arms fire(hell even zooks)the katyusha has 160hp(which is meant to stay behind enemy lines) as you can see if you want to hit the enemy base the stuka has enough hp to survive long enough for the barrage AND still live for repairs.

He didn't say anything which you concern, and you're getting hot by yourself...

COMPREHENSION?

LeFH cooldown starts with the first shell, ML-20 with the last, which means LeFH has much shorter cooldown and your saturation is much greater.
Checking only damage and shell number gives extremely misleading performance view.

This is wrong. The LeFH and ML-20 both start cooldown when the first shot is fired, and have the same cooldown of 85 Seconds.

This is wrong. The LeFH and ML-20 both start cooldown when the first shot is fired, and have the same cooldown of 85 Seconds.

So the ML-20 is just better in literally every way except firing like 2 less shells, lol.

tried for 30 min to find a way to kill ML20 with one walking stuka barrage.

can't do it. although i think i found the best way to try to maximise the stuka barrage effectiveness on ML20. it does have a chance to kill ML20 in one go but rarely.

i think both arties are too god right now. lefh to 8 shell ml-20 to 7, reduce the damage to 240 and add creeping barrage for vet 1.

tried for 30 min to find a way to kill ML20 with one walking stuka barrage.

can't do it. although i think i found the best way to try to maximise the stuka barrage effectiveness on ML20. it does have a chance to kill ML20 in one go but rarely.

i think both arties are too god right now. lefh to 8 shell ml-20 to 7, reduce the damage to 240 and add creeping barrage for vet 1.

As we have found outh with the Katyusha Creeping Barrage >>>>>>>> Precision strike.

Also vet stats because; lol

ML-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer
Fires 2 more shells per Barrage.
-15% scatter, +30% rotation speed, -25% barrage recharge
+33% range, +150% damage

10.5cm leFH 18 Artillery
Unlocks the 'Counter Barrage' ability
-15% scatter, -25% barrage recharge, +30% rotation speed
+33% range, +25% damage

As we have found outh with the Katyusha Creeping Barrage >>>>>>>> Precision strike.

Also vet stats because; lol

ML-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer
Fires 2 more shells per Barrage.
-15% scatter, +30% rotation speed, -25% barrage recharge
+33% range, +150% damage

10.5cm leFH 18 Artillery
Unlocks the 'Counter Barrage' ability
-15% scatter, -25% barrage recharge, +30% rotation speed
+33% range, +25% damage

150% more damage at vet3? That's insane... ML-20 and leFH18 vet3 effects should be swapped.

Counter barrage is sucks hard too.

My lucky Walking Stuka strike that kills this Howitzer, it is possible, but damn is it hard on maps like this. I had to lure that damn Zis so I could get the strike in. I guess the best way to do it is to angle your strike along the long length of the gun, basically directly parallel and on top of the barrel of the ML20 it is the best chance to have multiple rockets hit it.

The ML-20 doesn't get any damage buff. It always deals 300 damage.

The LeFH deals 200 damage at vet 3.

As we have found outh with the Katyusha Creeping Barrage >>>>>>>> Precision strike.

Also vet stats because; lol

ML-20 152mm Gun-Howitzer
Fires 2 more shells per Barrage.
-15% scatter, +30% rotation speed, -25% barrage recharge
+33% range, +150% damage

10.5cm leFH 18 Artillery
Unlocks the 'Counter Barrage' ability
-15% scatter, -25% barrage recharge, +30% rotation speed
+33% range, +25% damage

What an ability is listed to do in the veterancy seems not to correlate to ingame stats.

Example:
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/howitzer_105mm_gun_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/howitzer_105mm_gun_vet3_mp

You see it dealing 160 and then 200dmg

http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/152mm_m-30_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/152mm_m-30_vet3_mp

Both do 300dmg. If it was a 150% damage increase, well you would be 1 shotting medium tanks.

What an ability is listed to do in the veterancy seems not to correlate to ingame stats.

Example:
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/howitzer_105mm_gun_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/howitzer_105mm_gun_vet3_mp

You see it dealing 160 and then 200dmg

http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/152mm_m-30_mp
http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/152mm_m-30_vet3_mp

Both do 300dmg. If it was a 150% damage increase, well you would be 1 shotting medium tanks.

Someone should fix the vet guide on this site then; because that's were I got the info from~

...

152 mm mean no IS-2, no T-34/85 = easier game

But the su85 protecting it with well placed mines on approach is damn hard to beat.. Meanwhile ml120 is shelling the hell out of your position.. I've played with it and against it.. It's hard to say if it's OP.. Best counter is once you know he went ml120 quickly send a tank on far flanks to destroy.. The longer you wait the better position he will be in...

But the su85 protecting it with well placed mines on approach is damn hard to beat.. Meanwhile ml120 is shelling the hell out of your position.. I've played with it and against it.. It's hard to say if it's OP.. Best counter is once you know he went ml120 quickly send a tank on far flanks to destroy.. The longer you wait the better position he will be in...

In team games have everytime somebody stuka bomb. 1v1 i dont play, so it can by frustrating play versus howi.

Ml-20

I'm on the fence about the ML-20. On the one hand it has made a number of previously worthless commanders interesting, and on the other it has reintroduced the frustrating base rape arty mechanic. I love that commanders that haven't seen the light of day for almost 2 years are starting to see some time in the spotlight, but there aren't many viable counters aside from the recon run/offmap arty combo, and counter picking commanders will never be an interesting form of strategy in coh2, so that should be avoided at all costs.

I think a decent solution could be to make howitzers unable to be built within the base sector, and unable to barrage the opponents base sector. Bear with me. This would obviously make the howie a huge liability and would be a significant nerf to it's effectiveness.

In exchange for the drastic reduction in effectiveness, the howie would need a pretty huge manpower reduction. I think 400 manpower could be interesting, with a 10 minute cooldown so that once destroyed there is a grace period to keep it from simply being rebuilt and to reward the risk taken by the opposing player to destroy it.

This would allow opponents of the ML-20 more options in terms of commanders, as a more vulnerable howie wouldn't require a commander counter pick with off map arty, and would also free up OKW to deal with it in a more direct manner, as they lack off map arty options to deal with howies set up in the back of the base sector.

It also could offer players an opportunity to set traps to bait their opponent into taking out the howie, which could lead to some interesting cat and mouse games with mines/vehicles/ AT traps.

Seems a lot more interesting to me than the current meta: Does he have a howie commander? > Pick commander with some form of off map arty or get base raped into submission, or make an unreasonably risky and easy to counter push into his base sector to take it out.

Set distance of fire as a percent of map's size

ML-20 is mostly fine. Just give OKW braindead counter likr dive bomb.

152 mm mean no IS-2, no T-34/85 = easier game

This statement would be true in the previous patch were Soviets stock army was ass.

Guns no longer explode till the crew is dead, so you could have recrewed it and THEN had the gun blow up the next time or just had the gun take enough damage (while the crew stayed alive) so that if the crew died THEN it blew up.

This is not true, arty can still be taken out by directly targeting the gun. The grace provided to weapon teams does not apply to arty. When you see arty target the gun.

On a side note the IL-2 bombing run often decrews the gun and then another bomb hits destroying the low health gun. This may need to be looked at. On the other hand IL-2 is vulnerable to AA, warns the targeted player, and is slow to arrive.