Relic wants your vote about blizzards

If losing one squad lost you the game, you were almost certain to lose anyway. If your opponent really was on the ropes and about to go down, losing one squad should not prevent you from driving it home.



Why not? Are card games not played in international tournaments? Are they not played for real money? Do they not have professional, full time players?

Oh good god, now I remember why I don't interact with the public and what they believe "good game design" is.

Well, put another way: if nobody plays on blizzard maps, one of OKW's factional abilities is rendered useless and irrelevant.

An ability no other faction gets? Oh no...

Yes, so am I. RNG is NOT inimical to competitive play, as countless games and sports demonstrate abundantly. You're entitled to a stylistic peference, but the assertion that randomness is bad for competitive play is total junk

Too much randomness is not good . A certain amount is ok.

Reading these comments it seems fairly easy to distill the prevailing sentiment.

It seems Relic created blizzards as a tech demo as a way to mix up stalemates and allow for surprise attacks with the reduced vision and reformed ice. However, the second part of blizzards, deep snow and freezing, directly contradicts the tactical implications of the first.

Keep it as a high risk scenario. Keep the reduced vision, keep the reforming ice, but remove the troop freezing and deep snow.

Lets see surprise flanks on static lines. Lets see counterattacks blundering into each other. Lets see some defensive forces crushed and lets see some flanking troops shredded by an anticipated ambush.


Also, what if there was a subtle, visible timer displayed from the start of the match?

Oh good god, now I remember why I don't interact with the public and what they believe "good game design" is.

Lol. I've spent more than 20 years in game design.

An ability no other faction gets? Oh no...

Well obviously it's one that no other faction gets. Asymmetry, ya know? No other faction can reinforce squad weapons like soviet cons can, etc. etc.

If OKW have an ability that is never used, then a good case can be made that they should receive some other buff, or be reduced in cost, because as it stands they are paying for a useless ability.

Please note that I am not actually arguing or this, just pointing out an implication of the debate.

Too much randomness is not good . A certain amount is ok.

Absolutely. And the appropriate amount can vary depending on the mood or theme of the game in question, all sorts of things. I have at no point argued that the lack of randomness you see in games like chess is a bad thing; only that the popular truism that reducing randomness is automatically a positive step, is false.

Well obviously it's one that no other faction gets. Asymmetry, ya know? No other faction can reinforce squad weapons like soviet cons can, etc. etc.

If OKW have an ability that is never used, then a good case can be made that they should receive some other buff, or be reduced in cost, because as it stands they are paying for a useless ability.

Please note that I am not actually arguing or this, just pointing out an implication of the debate.

The Volks anti cold cost is useless in 3/4 of the maps anyway, but still their shrek costs 90 munis.

Blizzards punish 4 man squads way harder than 5-6 man squads. Honestly freezing, ice, and deep snow (lets not forget mud!!!) are all awful drawbacks with no advantage. Deep snow should give you green cover in all directions, ice should be impossible to break during a blizzard (yes unrealistic but it gives blizzards a point and makes heavys actually useful on ice maps), and freezing should just not be in the game period.

Mud should just be removed, there isn't any point in it's existence other than making the already questionable pathing of some units even worse.

Adding weather effects like rain as well as adding night battles is something I fully support. Night battles would be an awesome way of stressing the importance of recon like flares, IR HT support and spotting units.

Do the blizzards occur randomly on blizzard maps or are they scripted to occur at a specific time every game?

Blizzards are scripted to hit in pseudo-random intervals.
These are the default values.
First blizzard interval is 8-10 minutes.
The following blizzards intervals are 6,40 - 13,20 (minutes, ~seconds).
Blizzards will last between 2,40 - 4,0 (minutes, ~seconds).

Blizzards are scripted to hit in pseudo-random intervals.
These are the default values.
First blizzard interval is 8-10 minutes.
The following blizzards intervals are 6,40 - 13,20 (minutes, ~seconds).
Blizzards will last between 2,40 - 4,0 (minutes, ~seconds).

Yeah the RNG bullshit of how long and often blizzards are is painful as hell. I once had a 2v2 on Rzhev were we got several 3-4 minute blizzards 7 miuutes apart and it ground the entire game to a halt. In the end it just devolved into an arty slug fest as each side wailed on each other across the ice.

I'm happy they are taking a look into this, I veto every snow map with blizzards just because they slow down the game soooo much...

Absolutely. And the appropriate amount can vary depending on the mood or theme of the game in question, all sorts of things. I have at no point argued that the lack of randomness you see in games like chess is a bad thing; only that the popular truism that reducing randomness is automatically a positive step, is false.

It depends on what you are fighting for.
If you're fighting for more competitiveness, less RNG is wanted.

But let's discuss that another time, another topic

Well obviously it's one that no other faction gets. Asymmetry, ya know? No other faction can reinforce squad weapons like soviet cons can, etc. etc.

If OKW have an ability that is never used, then a good case can be made that they should receive some other buff, or be reduced in cost, because as it stands they are paying for a useless ability.

Please note that I am not actually arguing or this, just pointing out an implication of the debate.

That maybe true, but then certainly on summer maps OKW units should receive a buff when they upgrade since winter gear has no effect? The cold weather gear is not a significant component of game balance.

Reminds me of that one time I made an awesome comeback with 20 vps left. Held myself against the other player until I had total unit superiority. When I finally had pushed his whole army off the map, a blizzard came and slowed my whole army (low health units dying). I capped seconds too late and lost the game. Would not have happened on a summer map. Just random bullshit. Get rid of blizzards.

Blizzard:
-Remove 50mp cost to bonfires. Add a 2-3min cooldown to them.
-Remove damage/killing done to troops, just reduce performance of units suffering from cold or even increasing RA.
-Make it so it modifies in certain way deep snow and ice.
---Heavy snow: cloaks all units inside them. Useful for tanks/paks.
---Increase resilience of ice. Harder to destroy.

Heavy snow:
-Remove or severely nerf the penalties regarding movement.
-You could always make it an inbetween default cover and red cover regarding RA.

The cold weather gear is not a significant component of game balance.

But this is a self-fulfilling prophecy - it's not a significant component of balance because it seldom gets called on.

I don't think it makes much difference that the cold resistance has no effect on summer maps IF blizzard maps are also in the rotation and the tournaments. All that would mean is that OKW then pay a presumably discounted increment for the fact that their ability is only relevant say 50% of the time. It would also play a part in the map veto process, as an Axis player might veto the summer maps precisely to take advantage of OKW's enhanced freedom of movement in blizzard conditions.

But when they never get to use it - and this is especially true in the tournament context - then it's difficult to see how Volksgrens are not overpriced.

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What I'd actually like to see, seeing as Relic are asking the question, is a tournament held exclusively on winter maps. I would be very intrigued to see if players made different decisions if they knew they would certainly be facing coldtech, and if the OKW ability is significant enough that it makes an actual difference to play. Other elements would also be brought to the fore; Ost might also be motivated to do more building of bunkers, and halftracks might be used more for troop transport rather than automatically being upgraded to carry a weapon.

I would find that interesting, although the general hostility to coldtech makes it unlikely.

If you're fighting for more competitiveness, less RNG is wanted.

Sure, that's why international poker is played exclusively by hippies with flowers in their hair who hold hands and sing kumbaya when the other side wins their money.

Remove it.

I like them but make them more forgiving, lower the manpower on the campfire to half and debuff the freezing units hard instead of killing them for freezing