Urban assault doctrine

Unbelievably OP PGrens. This was my doctrine of choice while at the studios playing against Relic staff.

Unbelievably OP PGrens. This was my doctrine of choice while at the studios playing against Relic staff.

remembers doctrine

If always thought it would be cool if Axis got some sort of armor unit like shocks. Assault Pgrens could work but currently they have more armor than an M3 lol.

The doctrine should be a relic from the past

It really grinds my gears that carpet bombing isn't a USF ability. I mean come on! if anyone is known for large scale bombings it's the United States.

Don't worry, the late war Ostheer, which was famous for its enormous, well manned and well fuelled air force is well represented by dedicated air doctrines like LW Supply & CAS and multiple other doctrines with various strikes.


USF and OKW both have 1 airstrike, P47 vs Strafe+Fallschrim airborne assault

Don't worry, the late war Ostheer, which was famous for its enormous, well manned and well fuelled air force is well represented by dedicated air doctrines like LW Supply & CAS and multiple other doctrines with various strikes.


USF and OKW both have 1 airstrike, P47 vs Strafe+Fallschrim airborne assault

I know you're certifiably retarded, but I'm gonna level with you.

Ostheer in this game is represented Early and Mid war. OKW represents Germany in the Late war.

That is why Ostheer has the CAS doctrine and plenty of air support while OKW can barely scrape together air support for a Fallschirmjager air assault.


So the Ostheer still would have their Luftwaffe which scored numerous kills and was a major source of their earlier success dealing with the Russians.

I know you're certifiably retarded,

Pardon?

Ostheer in this game is represented Early and Mid war. OKW represents Germany in the Late war.

Ostheer represents the 1943-1944 Ostheer army. The Ostwind Flakpanzer did not see service until the 4th quarter of 1944 (Production began in September '44). It has the STG 44 on Panzergrenadiers (tested in 1943, but not deployed in scale and not under the designation STG44/MP44 until 1944). Numerous other units were only present in service at the tail end of '43 like the Pak43, Brumbar, and Elefant. It's absolutely not "early war". The only notable late war kit it's really lacking is the Tiger II. A lot of the OKW units were also present in the same time frame, like the Walking Stukka (1940), LEIG (1932!!!), Kubelwagen (1940), Panzer II 'Luchs' variant (1943), Raketenwerfer 43 (1943), JPIV (1943), Puma (late 43/early 44; also present in OH). Only a couple of units here and there are "ultra late war Germany" rather than simply being "the units that Ostheer didn't get around to using".

That is why Ostheer has the CAS doctrine and plenty of air support while OKW can barely scrape together air support for a Fallschirmjager air assault.


So the Ostheer still would have their Luftwaffe which scored numerous kills and was a major source of their earlier success dealing with the Russians.

The LW in 43-44 is operational, but not dominant, and the Red Air Force is also a force to be reckoned with. Is the CAS supposed to represent air dominance in 1941? When basically everything else is 42-44? I mean the design of OH and Sov are certainly incoherent. Like the Soviets are fielding 1943-44 tanks but their core infantry are low quality "conscripts" (weren't almost all of the soldiers on both sides conscripted?) that have molotov cocktails as their primary grenades.

To make things further convenient, the exact battle that the USF/OKW expansion is themed around happens to be one where the US air superiority was grounded for an extensive period of time by bad weather. And so they both get a whopping one airstrike.

The FHQ in this commander also allows infantry to retreat to it. There is a second retreat button just to retreat to it.

Jump back to quoted post22 Jul 2015, 02:29 AMSierra

I know you're certifiably retarded,

Pardon?

Ostheer in this game is represented Early and Mid war. OKW represents Germany in the Late war.

Ostheer represents the 1943-1944 Ostheer army. The Ostwind Flakpanzer did not see service until the 4th quarter of 1944 (Production began in September '44). It has the STG 44 on Panzergrenadiers (tested in 1943, but not deployed in scale and not under the designation STG44/MP44 until 1944). Numerous other units were only present in service at the tail end of '43 like the Pak43, Brumbar, and Elefant. It's absolutely not "early war". The only notable late war kit it's really lacking is the Tiger II. A lot of the OKW units were also present in the same time frame, like the Walking Stukka (1940), LEIG (1932!!!), Kubelwagen (1940), Panzer II 'Luchs' variant (1943), Raketenwerfer 43 (1943), JPIV (1943), Puma (late 43/early 44; also present in OH). Only a couple of units here and there are "ultra late war Germany" rather than simply being "the units that Ostheer didn't get around to using".

That is why Ostheer has the CAS doctrine and plenty of air support while OKW can barely scrape together air support for a Fallschirmjager air assault.


So the Ostheer still would have their Luftwaffe which scored numerous kills and was a major source of their earlier success dealing with the Russians.

The LW in 43-44 is operational, but not dominant, and the Red Air Force is also a force to be reckoned with. Is the CAS supposed to represent air dominance in 1941? When basically everything else is 42-44? I mean the design of OH and Sov are certainly incoherent. Like the Soviets are fielding 1943-44 tanks but their core infantry are low quality "conscripts" (weren't almost all of the soldiers on both sides conscripted?) that have molotov cocktails as their primary grenades.

To make things further convenient, the exact battle that the USF/OKW expansion is themed around happens to be one where the US air superiority was grounded for an extensive period of time by bad weather. And so they both get a whopping one airstrike.

You know what mate, you're absolutely right and I was in the wrong here. I apologize as I came off half cocked. Furthermore if I may try to clarify my position is that the INTENT of the armies and their doctrines are supposed to reflect varied points of the war but certainly not be so restricted by them.

The Allied forces do have lackluster air support and I don't disagree with that statement. The Close Air Support doctrine though is reflective of the Luftwaffe that decimated Soviet armored companies during Operation Barbarossa and lots of damage in Case Blue.

Certain figured who wrote autobiographies of their experiences during this point in the conflict would be a Hans Ulrich Rudel. The most highly decorated Luftwaffe pilot credited with over a hundred kills, possibly hundred(s) as I'm too lazy to get the exact number at the time of this posting.



I suppose the absolute simplest explanation is that everything is attempting to be in keeping with the intended design of this game within the confines of an entertaining arcade RTS environment.


Once again I would apologize on review of my original post in this thread. Though certainly you can sympathize with my frustrations as it seems that almost every other thread and post in the Shoutbox seems to me as nothing more than whinging about Axis faction(s)/units as if it was some damned crusade.

this doctrin is a hard counter, to the soviet foward HQ

I know you're certifiably retarded, but I'm gonna level with you.

Ostheer in this game is represented Early and Mid war. OKW represents Germany in the Late war.

That is why Ostheer has the CAS doctrine and plenty of air support while OKW can barely scrape together air support for a Fallschirmjager air assault.


So the Ostheer still would have their Luftwaffe which scored numerous kills and was a major source of their earlier success dealing with the Russians.

Speaking of being retarded... relic have stated multiple times, ever since game was released that multiplayer happens on 1944-45 for soviets and ostheer.

Its campaign and ToW that covers early war.

If he is certifiable retarded, then let me reassure you that you don't really have to level with him since you're there already with 3 stars of vet.

Speaking of being retarded... relic have stated multiple times, ever since game was released that multiplayer happens on 1944-45 for soviets and ostheer.

Its campaign and ToW that covers early war.

If he is certifiable retarded, then let me reassure you that you don't really have to level with him since you're there already with 3 stars of vet.

Quoted the post before the retraction.

I suppose the absolute simplest explanation is that everything is attempting to be in keeping with the intended design of this game within the confines of an entertaining arcade RTS environment.


Once again I would apologize on review of my original post in this thread. Though certainly you can sympathize with my frustrations as it seems that almost every other thread and post in the Shoutbox seems to me as nothing more than whinging about Axis faction(s)/units as if it was some damned crusade.

My central complaint here is not that axis is OP (it varies from patch to patch and game mode to game mode), it's more like that all of the design decisions they took trend towards Axis getting to play with all of the cool toys in the toybox. Ostheer in particular is unambiguously the most well rounded and well designed faction in the game with no obvious factional weaknesses. Great core inf, great support units, great tanks. Late game artillery/indirect is not as good as Soviet (at least, in current patches) but still respectable. Their core army works well even without access to doctrines.

When I say the design decisions leading towards this, I'm referring to things like the OH getting stock Panthers and late-war model Panzer IVs, but then giving the Soviets the regular T34. Or how there's all this late war kit on both sides, but then the Russian infantry is designed as though they're still under-trained and disposable cannon fodder for the most part. Or how they chose to theme the Western Front expansion around the Battle of the Bulge, preventing old favorites like the Pershing from making a reappearance. It's like, Ostheer is Die Wehrmacht's Greatest Hits Album while USF is just one EP from the middle of the career of that army that doesn't represent how their sound changed over time. And Sov is a the Youtube Mix based off this one song you listened to one time that has a bunch of related stuff but in no particular order. I hope this strange analogy makes sense

These decisions aren't some conspiracy, it's a series of coincidences, but I find it mildly irritating. USF would have been the most ideal place to put your crazy air supremacy doctrines, but instead they, too, went to Ostheer. And they get doctrines with cheap, disposable infantry, and fast, mobile striking units like the Puma. At this point it feels like they're stealing all of the other factions themes and ideas too!

These decisions aren't some conspiracy, it's a series of coincidences, but I find it mildly irritating. USF would have been the most ideal place to put your crazy air supremacy doctrines, but instead they, too, went to Ostheer. And they get doctrines with cheap, disposable infantry, and fast, mobile striking units like the Puma. At this point it feels like they're stealing all of the other factions themes and ideas too!

Would it make you feel better if I told you that the Close Air Support doctrine used to be complete and total shit? That before the alterations that allowed the players to manually control the directions of strafes that no one would touch that doctrine because of how horribly bad it was with its old static strafe directions.

That it was in the game before the USF was in the game or even a concept and was so- so bad.

The alterations to air gameplay made it good, prior to that it was bad.

My central complaint here is not that axis is OP (it varies from patch to patch and game mode to game mode), it's more like that all of the design decisions they took trend towards Axis getting to play with all of the cool toys in the toybox. Ostheer in particular is unambiguously the most well rounded and well designed faction in the game with no obvious factional weaknesses. Great core inf, great support units, great tanks. Late game artillery/indirect is not as good as Soviet (at least, in current patches) but still respectable. Their core army works well even without access to doctrines.

When I say the design decisions leading towards this, I'm referring to things like the OH getting stock Panthers and late-war model Panzer IVs, but then giving the Soviets the regular T34. Or how there's all this late war kit on both sides, but then the Russian infantry is designed as though they're still under-trained and disposable cannon fodder for the most part. Or how they chose to theme the Western Front expansion around the Battle of the Bulge, preventing old favorites like the Pershing from making a reappearance. It's like, Ostheer is Die Wehrmacht's Greatest Hits Album while USF is just one EP from the middle of the career of that army that doesn't represent how their sound changed over time. And Sov is a the Youtube Mix based off this one song you listened to one time that has a bunch of related stuff but in no particular order. I hope this strange analogy makes sense

These decisions aren't some conspiracy, it's a series of coincidences, but I find it mildly irritating. USF would have been the most ideal place to put your crazy air supremacy doctrines, but instead they, too, went to Ostheer. And they get doctrines with cheap, disposable infantry, and fast, mobile striking units like the Puma. At this point it feels like they're stealing all of the other factions themes and ideas too!

Pretty much this. Plus there is thread here about incoming British faction and what new toys and ideas should axis get to "compensate" this huge ally addition.