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21st patch Howie's + 2 click counters. What to do?

19 Jul 2015, 07:39 AM
#61
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

u guys think so narrowly when thinking of balance suggestions. its quite true its tough to balance between these high value static emplacements and the '2 click counters' that destroy them. personally id like to see both howitzers get their range reduced by 25-33%, their cost reduced to 400-450, pop reduced, unable to be built in base sectors and maybe drop the number of shells fired down just a tad.

i think this pretty drastic change would force players to build howitzers in significantly more forward positions than they are now to use them offensively (which at the same time will leave them vulnerable to pushes from the enemy), or they can choose to build them further in their own territory and use them as a defensive unit instead. the decrease in cost means that having 2 or even 3 howitzers is feasible, and significantly reduces the impact of a single stuka divebomb taking out your investment.

I've been saying they should do something like this for a while now, though I think that's a bit too many nerfs. And let's remember not to leave out the priest as well.

My dream changes for arty:

No longer buildable in base (Priest can no longer fire from base)
shells reduced a bit back to old numbers
Price dropped
increase gun health
Add tank shock or crits on contact with vehicles to increase versatility
Maybe increase cooldown if necessary


The thing is as long as artillery remains buildable inside the base, artillery NEEDS to be very vulnerable and expensive, because of how hard it is to get too.
19 Jul 2015, 08:27 AM
#62
avatar of Emporer Palpatine

Posts: 54

Permanently Banned


Lets just say they are built around artillery


Heaven forsake us, we are doomed
19 Jul 2015, 08:28 AM
#63
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561



Heaven forsake us, we are doomed
Don't worry. It's just an alpha tester inside joke.
19 Jul 2015, 09:19 AM
#64
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

Original stats for these howitzers were that "LEFH 18" shot 12 times, and "ML-20" shot 8 times (and it had precision strike) i dont remember people complaining much about it, except when their capping units go instantly killed by precision strike, heck even StephenJF beat his opponents few times with his 2 LEFH 18´s build on his base, and then just shelling the hell out of his opponent :P
19 Jul 2015, 09:23 AM
#65
avatar of richrox

Posts: 10

I kind of feel like almost all off map artillery should be removed and replaced with buildable batteries.

Adjustments for balance can be made after that point with a range reduction being a good start. It's kind of silly that you can instantly decrew or destroy static emplacements like the pak 43, 152 and LeFH with a couple of clicks and some spare munitions (optional in the case of CAS)
19 Jul 2015, 09:53 AM
#66
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

I´m a bit disappointed about the changes to the Panzerwerfer and 105 and 152.

Some more shells doesn´t necessarily make the 105 and 152 a better weapon. The only thing that means is base raping artillery. They still suck versus mobile units and hitting them. In the end they are better - but only for abusing. Something that´s going to be very frustrating.

The Panzerwerfer is still shit. Better veterancy gain on something shitty isn´t going to fix it.
19 Jul 2015, 09:55 AM
#67
avatar of Emporer Palpatine

Posts: 54

Permanently Banned
The Panzerwerfer is still shit. Better veterancy gain on something shitty isn´t going to fix it.


Even at vet 3 it sucks xd. Stuka is god though!
19 Jul 2015, 10:00 AM
#68
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

Don't worry. It's just an alpha tester inside joke.


OH, lol!
19 Jul 2015, 10:23 AM
#69
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

I´m a bit disappointed about the changes to the Panzerwerfer and 105 and 152.

Some more shells doesn´t necessarily make the 105 and 152 a better weapon. The only thing that means is base raping artillery. They still suck versus mobile units and hitting them. In the end they are better - but only for abusing. Something that´s going to be very frustrating.

The Panzerwerfer is still shit. Better veterancy gain on something shitty isn´t going to fix it.



Completely agreed ffs
19 Jul 2015, 10:51 AM
#70
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

u guys think so narrowly when thinking of balance suggestions. its quite true its tough to balance between these high value static emplacements and the '2 click counters' that destroy them. personally id like to see both howitzers get their range reduced by 25-33%, their cost reduced to 400-450, pop reduced, unable to be built in base sectors and maybe drop the number of shells fired down just a tad.

i think this pretty drastic change would force players to build howitzers in significantly more forward positions than they are now to use them offensively (which at the same time will leave them vulnerable to pushes from the enemy), or they can choose to build them further in their own territory and use them as a defensive unit instead. the decrease in cost means that having 2 or even 3 howitzers is feasible, and significantly reduces the impact of a single stuka divebomb taking out your investment.



These are the best ideas so far. I had a similar conversation with some friends yesterday. Reducing the range, also makes it possible for mobile arty to get into range of the piece a lot easier, and soft counter the thing, should one choose the wrong doctrine.

Only one problem remains if you do this... CAS. All the other 2 click counters become an even (ish) trade off in the scenario of your changes.
19 Jul 2015, 15:44 PM
#71
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2015, 04:10 AMpigsoup


yes please.

similar treatment for b4, too. maybe make it even cheaper. although i dont know how to balance or suck the frustration out of RNG wiping machine.


I think it would work for the ML20. The B4 feels like playing the lottery. It would've been much better to lower the pop cap, price, and damage, and maybe range, than to eliminate precision strike.

StarCraft and WarCraft don't have anywhere near these balance issues. Some of the differences between those two and COH is that they don't have "super" units (other than WC3's heroes) and the economies are the same (no gas, mineral, wood, etc penalty). Then if something is overpowered, just buff the counter. It makes for a lot more variety and fun game-play.

19 Jul 2015, 19:50 PM
#72
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jul 2015, 15:44 PMGrumpy

Some of the differences between those two and COH is that they don't have "super" units (other than WC3's heroes)

Mothership is the only "real" super unit. But then you also have plenty of lategame units: Carriers, Battlecruisers, Broodlords. Up to some point Collusus and Ultralisk.
While talking bout SC2, you need to remember: Huge player base + only 1v1 balance mentality + mirror matches
This leaves you with balancing only for: TvP, TvZ, PvZ.

Here we have: OHvSU, OHvsUSF, OHvB, OKWvSU, OKWvUSF, OKWvB. You could say they also have to "balance" the mirror matches but...
...We care about teamgames also here. Just with 2v2 think about the amount of combinations.
WAIT, theres more. We have on the new factions 6 commanders which change gameplay completely while the vcoh2 factions have over 10 commanders. All which change completely the dynamic of each faction. Yep, easy.

You think we are done? Nope, we also have assymetrical maps!
21 Jul 2015, 16:34 PM
#73
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

Less than two hours before the CoH community go full retard ITT.
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